cheers boys

[rawker79]

i want to thank you guys for being honest in the way you have discussed the upcoming war on your show. unfortunately, i have to listen to a comedy radio show for it, but it's refreshing nonetheless.

i'm a staunch leftist, and you guys besides public radio seem to be the only people asking the tough questions. it shows that you rightly are questioning the motivations behind the whole iraq debacle.

anyway, you are also the funniest guys on the air. keep it up. hope to come and visit you in fairfax. i live right down the street.

much love.....pinko

[Death Metal Moe]

Get a Pair and support our Troops Lefty.

SOMEONE has to take some responsibility for the state of the world, and we're going in whether you like it or not.

Go cry with Danny Glover.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
BACON FACTION 4 LIFE!
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[East Side Dave]

Norm!

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/ESD.gif>
Big Ass Mafia

[rawker79]

you're right "somebody should take responsibility for the state of the world". the u.s., france, china, britain, russia, should all take responsibility for making saddam a power in his region in the first place.

i love how those on the right want to speak about responsibility, then develop a convenient case of amnesia anytime the u.s. is called on the carpet. the arguments are shallow and uninformed.

i want to save our troops for cleaning up the mess that the rich and powerful have created. if you care about our troops you should too.

[Death Metal Moe]

you're right "somebody should take responsibility for the state of the world". the u.s., france, china, britain, russia, should all take responsibility for making saddam a power in his region in the first place.


Oh Boo Hoo. Shit happens. EVERY country makes bad descions, but the REAL question is: WHO will step up and deal with the problem at hand?

i love how those on the right want to speak about responsibility, then develop a convenient case of amnesia anytime the u.s. is called on the carpet. the arguments are shallow and uninformed


I love how the left will block any chance of war at all like they're the real resopnsible ones. If Iraq is left alone, they will attack Israel and any other local country they see fit to in no time flat. Not to mention that Saddam will sell these weapons to people who will try to get them over here. Try again DEEK.


i want to save our troops for cleaning up the mess that the rich and powerful have created. if you care about our troops you should too.


You sir have bought into the LIES of the Left. You have allowed your school system or College or whatever stupid opinions you heard as a child and young adult cloud your better judgement and free thinking.

I CARE about our troops. They're going to fight Saddam NOW so that we're not all dying from chemical attacks home. They will destroy him and his troops. Then, they will finally find the TRUTH out about their weapons and WHY the French and Germans are so fast to keep troops out of there. They are better men and women than you and I and DESERVE our support because they decided to give their lives if need be to defend freedom.

Luckily you do not decide anything and the people who DO make descisons have the intellect and Moral base to choose correctly.

My question for you is THIS:

You seem to want no war. And NO ONE wants it. BUT WHAT do YOU suggest we do? NOthing? Anothe useless UN resolution? Allow impotent inspectors to continue their "needle in a haystack" search for weapons?

THen what? In a few years Saddam will kick them out of the country again, and he'll just have even more weapons, maybe even Nuclear?

What THEN buddy? What will your NEW Anit-American agenda be. Because that's what it is. Maybe not YOU, but about 80% of this around the world is just Anti-American stuff on banners. Bush is Hitler. The REAL terroists are the US. I have no time for this shit. Fuck whoever won't deal with this problem.

What will we do then?

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
BACON FACTION 4 LIFE!
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[rnframone]

Go Moe!

"The first thing you have to say to yourself... would life would be better without alcohol"~Billy

"My life would be better without you Billy"~Ron

This message was edited by rnframone on 2-20-03 @ 12:02 AM

[rawker79]

i read every word of your post, and i will respond point-by-point. i'd appreciate it if you would read my entire post as well. this is a valuable argument, and i'd like to change the tone so we can deal in facts, not bumper sticker slogans. that kind of exchange does nothing for the debate, and i apologize if i did that.

- you equate war with "stepping up and dealing with the problem", which logically leads to the idea that any alternative does nothing. this is an age old tool that every government, totalitarian and demockratic has used to squash debate. it's a classic fallacy of the right. i don't think burning down new jersey to get john gotti would have the proper way to "stand up and deal with" that problem. it would be just as unwise to deal with saddam that way either. 800 cruise missiles fired into bagdhad on the first day would be the equivalent of just that (but of course we wouldn't hit civilians on purpose).

- saddam had ample chance to to use chemical and biological weapons on israel in the first gulf war, and he didn't. why? because he would have been incinerated. anyone who knows saddam's make-up, knows he is not the martyrdom type. this also why he will not proliferate w.m.d. either. the entire security council helped him build his entire w.m.d. programs during the eighties. any weapons used here would have forensic "fingerprints" which could easily be traced to saddam's labs. the c.i.a. director himself testified that saddam would "most likely not use such weapons unless cornered by a u.s. invasion." this is coming from the head of one of the most aggressive organizations in history.

- you say that the french and germans don't want war because the truth about their extensive weapons dealings with saddam will be revealed. i hate to break it to you, but all this is already public (search for "wisconsin project" on yahoo). besides that, this argument just isn't very well thought out. first of all, trade with iraq comprises barely 3% of france's total trade revenue, and even less of germany's.

- another argument that the bush junta has tried to sell is that france and germany have a lot of oil contracts with saddam, and if he's ousted, they won't make their money back. the other side of that transparent argument is that if france and germany don't go along with the war, they will be completely cut out of any future stake in iraqi oil (the administration has already made this clear to french and german officials). france and germany also realize that this war is inevitable, no matter what they say. they also know that there is no way saddam will remain in power after it's over. therefore, they know by being against that they ensure that they will never recoup these debts.

- you can't be intellectually honest, and show outrage for france and germany's arms dealings with iraq, and ignore the roles that at&t, motorola, ibm, lucent technologies, sun microsystems, hewlett packard, siemens, bechtel, honeywell, donald rumsfeld, ronald reagan, william casey, dick cheney (haliburton), the commerce department ($500 million in export contracts), former assistant secretary of state richard murphy, george bush sr., george schultz (bechtel), and many others played in arming saddam.

- i have no ill-will towards anyone who would be willing to fight and die for the principles of freedom, justice, peace, self-determination, etc. however, i find great fault with people, who's daddies could afford to spare them from that task, using these principles as a false front for wars that only secure financial portfolios, and only increase ill-will towards our country.

- i fail to see the "moral base" of a government that exported over $500 million in technology, as well as chemical and biological precursors to a man who they now compare to hitler. i fail to see the "moral base" of a government who supported , profitted from, and helped block all congressional inquiry into the worst atrocities of this "new hitler". i fail to see the moral base of a government who in 1982 removed this "new hitler" from their terrorist

[rnframone]

It's a fact that Sadam has paid the families of Palestinian homicide bombers, directly supporting terrorism. It's not much of a stretch then to think that he may one day try to indirectly fund terror against the US, or to step up his support of anti-Israeli terror.
The fear is that this time he will use his hidden chemical and biological weapons, and cause destruction much worse than anything either the US or Israel has suffered before. That's a risk I as a New Yorker and American don't want to take, and thank God, President Bush doesn't want to either.

"The first thing you have to say to yourself... would life would be better without alcohol"~Billy

"My life would be better without you Billy"~Ron

[Death Metal Moe]

Here goes:

- you equate war with "stepping up and dealing with the problem", which logically leads to the idea that any alternative does nothing.


Then I need to hear YOUR idea of an alternative, because the UN's alternative to bcking up it's own words is to sit on it's hands for like 10-12 years and I think last count was 16 or 17 ignored resolutions. I don't want to see civilians get killed or out military either, but the alternative on the table NOW is to play HIDE AND SEEK with W.M.D. until Saddam feels he can kick inspectors out again. Remember, Saddam WAS NOT supposed to play cat and mouse with us in the UN's own words in that resolution. It was supposed to openly divulge the location of the weapons and let us destroy them

saddam had ample chance to to use chemical and biological weapons on israel in the first gulf war, and he didn't. why? because he would have been incinerated. anyone who knows saddam's make-up, knows he is not the martyrdom type. this also why he will not proliferate w.m.d. either.


I think he DID use them on our troops in the Gulf War. Wasn't that the Gulf War syndrome? But that was an attack and only further backs your argument, I understand. But he DOES use them on his own people.

I have no idea why he didn't use them on Israel in the 1st Gulf war. But I mean WHAT do you think he's going to do with them? Set the warheards up and just count them for fun? He's going to do SOMETHING with them, and my thought is kill millions more of his own people, neighbors and sell the weapons to terror organizations of which I have heard many connections to.

you say that the french and germans don't want war because the truth about their extensive weapons dealings with saddam will be revealed. i hate to break it to you, but all this is already public


I think we all understand that countries don't make all thier dealings public? Come on now. NO country on the face of the planet is an open door government. There is SOMETHING in there that they're scared to death about us finding. I expect something more than money is the cause of their descisons to oppose war.

france and germany have a lot of oil contracts with saddam, and if he's ousted, they won't make their money back. the other side of that transparent argument is that if france and germany don't go along with the war, they will be completely cut out of any future stake in iraqi oil (the administration has already made this clear to french and german officials). france and germany also realize that this war is inevitable, no matter what they say.


Then if they KNOW they might be cut out, and don't care about their lost contracts, then WHY all the opposition? I do NOT buy that they're the 'conscience' of the world. And have they forgotten what life under a ruthless dictator is like? The US was welcomed by every Iraqi they met as we libirated them from Saddam, or so they though. And I don't care if their trade with Iraq was 1%, Iraq has one of the largest oil supplies on earth. So that 3% IS a big deal.

I'm also glad you didn't try to say the US was going to try and take over the oil in Iraq. This is a foolish argument that NO ONE should make. The world will not sit by as we take over Iraq.

i have no ill-will towards anyone who would be willing to fight and die for the principles of freedom, justice, peace, self-determination, etc. however, i find great fault with people, who's daddies could afford to spare them from that task, using these principles as a false front for wars that only secure financial portfolios, and only increase ill-will towards our country


Oh DON'T even start with the "Rich Boy" argument. Clinton didn't even have the decency to FAKE a stay in the military. I will not argue that the Bush's are oil people, but their "Get rich quick sceme" is more of a conspiracy theory than fact. And as for Ill will against our country, like our rep was any better before now? America has always been hated for being the "cool kid" in a

[TheMojoPin]

America has always been hated for being the "cool kid" in a world of smelly dork countries. We're the one with a blonde on one arm and a redhead on the other. USA!!!

MOE FOR PREZ!!!

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

<img src=http://www.pluggedin.org/tool_kit/tools/prez.jpg>

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks. FREE YERDADDY!!!
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[A.J.]

MOE FOR PREZ!!!

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!


"E Pluribus Bacon"

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

[Death Metal Moe]

We hold these meats to be self evident that all Bacon is created equal......except for Turkey Bacon. That's for Commies.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
BACON FACTION 4 LIFE!
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[high fly]

It's not just leftists that have come out against the war or expressed reservations with going in at this time, or who feel we have not beenadequately informed as to the consequences of having our own California-sized West Bank on our hands.
Republican nazi Pat Buchannon recently came out against it, and many former military commanders with more experience than us in warfare have expressed reservations about it.
While stereotypes about antiwar loonies can be funny, they do not make logical arguments.
For the record, I am for going in, but still have questions about it.

"Fan of Latin Spice's Kadoonk Adoonk since day one"

[bitemyass]

what?

This message was edited by bitemyass on 2-23-03 @ 5:45 AM

[Death Metal Moe]

I just wanted to say rawker79 that even though we differ in our opinions on this topic, I really enjoyed our discussion and have been awaiting your rebuttal.

This is not a challenge or a punk out, just a "what happened?" We were actually having a decent discussion with no name calling or other immaturity.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[high fly]

I think he DID use them on our troops in the Gulf War.Wasn't that the Gulf War Syndrome?

Thousands of our troops who never got to the battlefield or even closer than, say, Egypt, came down with Gulf War Syndrome.
While the actual cause of it has not been determined, a strong suspect is the innoculations that the troops recieved.This is the one thing that all who came down with the syndrome share. It was not the normal one, which at the time would have taken several months in the body to be effective; but rather it had some sort of untested booster in it that may have caused Gulf War Syndrome

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Death Metal Moe]

On Gulf war Syndrome, I heard from Grim Sanity that there was radiation in the tank shells the men fired. Supposedly, the radiation helped the shells penetrate the tank armor better. Only problem was then fired, the dust would blow back into the crew area.

He said he heard in the news story that at least one man was so contaminated, he had to be quaranteed. And everytime he pissed, his piss had to be quaranteed as well.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[DJEvelEd]

What did Lucent Technologies give to Saddam???

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Big bird is Ferrall's bitch
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[A.J.]

On Gulf war Syndrome, I heard from Grim Sanity that there was radiation in the tank shells the men fired.


The depleted uranium shells, correct?

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[DarkHippie]

The depleted uranium shells, correct?
There is a strong case for depleted uranium being the cause of Gulf War Syndrome, as Iraqi citizens have also come down with similar symptoms . . . and so have Afghanis.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[high fly]

The symptoms of GWS do not match up with radiation poisoning or battlefield exposure to chemical weapons symptoms.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[A.J.]

FYI: Here is a link to a transcript of a briefing on depleted uranium that took place last Friday:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t03142003_t314depu.html

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[Shecky]

I'm glad we're finally doing something about the Middle East. Clinton tried the peaceful approach, now it's time for the right side to take charge of the situation. Fuck Saddam and everything he stands for!!!. And I don't want to hear the excuse that oil and the Jews are the reason why we're there in the first place. For every suicide bomber in Israel I bet a few Americans are killed in the process, and for every penny that is given to the families of these suicide bombers, a few pennies comes out of Saddam's pocket. Even if you are against the war YOU SHOULDN'T BE AGAINST YOUR COUNTRY AND YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE MIDDLE EAST DOING WHAT'S RIGHT. STOP WASTING THE COPS TIME WITH THESE PROTESTS, YOU'RE TAKING THEM AWAY FROM PROTECTING US HERE. AND DONT GIVE ME THAT EXCUSE OF, "IF THERE WAS NO WAR THERE WOULD BE NO PROTESTS"....TOUGH SHIT!!! IT'S NOT UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE A WAR OR NOT. DO YOU SEE HOW HAPPY THOSE PEOPLE ARE WAVING THEIR WHITE FLAGS, KISSING THE HANDS OF OUR SOLDIERS THERE TO HELP THEM. THERE WERE TROOPS SURRENDERING AND DEFECTING TO KUWAIT BEFORE WE EVEN GOT THERE. YOU TRY SPEAKING UP AGAINST YOUR GOVERNMENT ....OH WAIT YOU FAGGOTY PRICKS ALREADY DO...YOU JUST DON'T GET KILLED DOING SO.

GOD BLESS AMERICA, THE COUNTRIES SUPPORTING US, AND PRAY FOR A QUICK AND SAFE RETURN FOR OUR TROOPS!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[TheMojoPin]

For every suicide bomber in Israel I bet a few Americans are killed in the process

For every turkey that is eaten at Christmas instead of ham, I'll bet than an angel gets his wings made of tin foil and rocket jets.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bestinshow]

In the 1930`s the rest of the world said war was not necessary. We can deal with Hitler with diplomacy. does everybody remember what happened?
As far as france and Germany. I hardly ever remember them on the right side of anything.
Its funny though, the Palestinians target civilians on a daily basis as there only war strategy. They don`t even have a military. All they do is homicide bombs. Yet the world is sympathetic to them and Hussein who has murdered thousands of his own people including his generals but we are the war mongers and immoral. Gee, I find that a little pecular.
And I have yet to hear a Democrat have a solution for anything yet they bitch about anything Bush and the Republicans do. Is your only platform that you hate Bush? maybe you guys need some new ideas.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us>

[TheMojoPin]

And I have yet to hear a Democrat have a solution for anything yet they bitch about anything Bush and the Republicans do. Is your only platform that you hate Bush? maybe you guys need some new ideas.

Is your platform only to do the opposite of what the Democrats say? Maybe you guys need some new ideas.

WHEEEEE, THIS IS FUN!!! BANG! POW!!!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Kovon]

Can some one send me a new stream.
eback to wwilliamskwill@aol thanks

Nice-E-Nice

[Shecky]

For every turkey that is eaten at Christmas instead of ham, I'll bet than an angel gets his wings made of tin foil and rocket jets.



My father is more man than your mother ever wants to be.

Just because you rhyme don't make you cool.

Later On,
SHECKY

[TheMojoPin]

I make pee-pee in your Coke.

PLEASE! No tears.



<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-22-03 @ 2:03 AM

[Death Metal Moe]

WOW! How did this thread turn into a poetry contest?

I saw a Fox News study that said over 90% of Democrats are Homosexuals. Did anyone else see that?

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
<A HREF="http://www.pub21.ezboard.com/bonaarmy">JOIN THE O&A ARMY!!!</A>

[TheMojoPin]

See it? I'm LIVING it! Reeshy and I say, "RELAX!"

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."