Are we in over our heads in Iraq?

[Bob Impact]

BAGHDAD/ISTANBUL (Jan. 23) - Washington looked increasingly isolated in its stance toward Iraq Thursday as key powers lined up to oppose war. China and Russia joined U.S. allies France and Germany in rejecting military action.

As the United States and Britain continued their troop build-up in the Gulf, Middle East nations also met Thursday to discuss ways of averting a conflict.

The stand taken by Paris, Beijing and Moscow means a majority of the five veto-wielding permanent members on the U.N. Security Council are against rushing into war. The other two members are the United States and Britain.

However Washington has said it could launch military action without Security Council backing.

In Berlin, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder vowed he and French President Jacques Chirac would do all they could to avert war. ''War may never be considered unavoidable,'' he said.

Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said there were no grounds to use force at the moment.

''There is still political and diplomatic leeway to resolve the Iraq issue,'' he said in Athens.

He agreed with France and Germany that U.N. inspectors in Iraq should be allowed to press on with their job of looking for evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said Beijing's position was ''extremely close to that of France.''

Washington accuses Iraq of hiding nuclear, chemical or biological weapons and has threatened to attack if Baghdad does not disarm in line with a U.N. resolution passed in November. Iraq denies possessing any banned weapons.

The U.N. inspectors, who are due to present a key report to the United Nations Monday, have said they need several more months to complete their work.

However, President Bush has warned time is running out for Iraq.

He is massing 150,000 troops in the region and has said he is ready to use them, with or without a Security Council resolution, if he considers Iraq has not disarmed.


So, the question is, as we close on what looks like an inpending war with Iraq are we in a situation now where we are going to furhur isolate ourselves from the world, and as such, destroy any coalition we did have? What effect do you think this will have on our chances of attacking North Korea at the end of this war?

Also, are Rumsfeld's planned 150,000 troops enough to get the job done, or is this going to really turn into Desert Storm 2 with a quarter million soliders on the front?

Discuss.

<center><img src="http://home.1asphost.com/bobimpact/bobimpactfog.gif"><br>
Thanks, FlufferNutter! - <a href="http://bobimpact.coolfreepage.com/">Ron and Fez Drop Archive</a></center>

[Patches]

Are we in over our heads in Iraq?


It doesn't actually matter. Protest all you want, March up and down Washington, Tokyo, Pakistan, where ever, like it or not, this war is going to happen, sooner rather than later.

Guess what? No, you can't make a difference!

<IMG SRC=http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/sigpic4.jpg>

<b>Osama Bin Laden, you can kiss my royal Irish ass! And I live in Rockaway. And this is my face, bitch!
-FF Mike Moran</b>

[TheMojoPin]

Wow, an American president thinking only in the short term and NOT how their actions will immeasurably fuck us over around the world for years, maybe even DECADES to come? Holy shit on a stick, I DIDN'T see that one coming...whoa...whoo...HEY, slow down...

Whether you like or not, America's economy and policy is linked with the rest of the world for the rest of its existence. If we cut ourselves off, we will die. It's really very simple.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

Guess what? No, you can't make a difference!

Guess who's not getting another term from the great unwashed populace? A-HYUCK-A-DOOKLE-DOOOOOO!!!

<img src=http://www.gifs.net/animate/hillbilly.gif>

Come on, everybody! COMMENCE THE JIGGLING!!!

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-23-03 @ 2:31 PM

[DarkHippie]

when we do go through with this war (and it is a "when" these days) I wonder what the responce from the UN will be. Typically, when one nation attacks another, there are some sort of sanctions placed on them. Will the United States be given economic sanctions? will there be mass boycotts worldwide? If so, how does Pres. Bush expect our economy to recover if all trading with the world is cut off?

The crisis in iraq is not about war. It is about diplomacy. too much force in one place causes one reaction, too little causes another. Unfortunately, continuing to go to war even after Every member of the UN Security Council (except Great britain) has expressed their opposition to the war is a case of too much force, and the reaction will set us apart as outcasts in the world community.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[TheMojoPin]

I just don't get why so many Americans take the fact that we rely on and are dependent on our position as an INTERNATIONAL player as like some sort of "slam" or insult on America itself.

Since WWI, America was been deeply involved in almost all significant global matters, and our government, economy, fuel resources, food suppliers and even our very way of live have adjusted as such. And most of this for the better of America and its citizens. Despite what some may rant, I believe America's role around the world has done a lot of good, and has improved our nation's status in ways that Americans 100 years ago could never have imagined. But we've also reached a point where we simply could not survive on our own. We need our allies, and without them we'd plummet into economic ruin and chaos. We simply cannot dismiss their opinions and decisions on inernational matters that we are involved in. It's just not practical...and when you get down to it, just not fair. They're our allies...we trusted most of them for almost 50 years in the Cold War and during WW2...why can we not now say, "oh, THIS is the reason we're invading"...what could we possibly lose by doing that? Since when is it detrimental to have our proven allies on our side when we're about to embark on a large scale invasion and occupation halfway around the world? That's the part I don't get...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LiquidCourage]

Guess who's not getting another term from the great unwashed populace?


Who's gonna be the next President, Joe Lieberman? Al Sharpton?

[TheMojoPin]

Who's gonna be the next President, Joe Lieberman? Al Sharpton?

Lord, NO. Sharpton won't really take a significant number of votes, and I have the feeling Lieberman's snowball's chance will be seen as unavoidable and the party will push for him to bow out.

Look, unless Bush can pull off a quick, clean win in Iraq and the economy makes a miraculous turnaround, he's going to fall prey to the same public shift as his dad did. Remember, at this time in his dad's campaign, NOBODY thought it was possible for him to be voted out...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[DarkHippie]

My guess would be that Kerry takes it, although I would still love to see Martin O'Malley throw his hat into the ring.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[LiquidCourage]

This whole thing annoys the hell out of me, both sides.

If you ask someone who's for this war why they're behind it, they'll say "Look at 9/11, that's why" as if Hussein was behind it, or they'll be convinced somehow that he'll give something to bin Laden (even though Hussein's a Sunni and bin Laden's a Shi'ite, and they hate each other almost as much as they hate Jews)

Then when you ask someone who's against it why they're against it, they'll say "so many Iraqi's will be killed, and there's no real justification for that right now"
They'll never express their concern for the big numbers of our troops that will die, just the Iraqis that will be accidently killed. It really pisses me off.

[Yerdaddy]

They'll never express their concern for the big numbers of our troops that will die, just the Iraqis that will be accidently killed. It really pisses me off.
Dig up my posts on Iraq, because I'm sick of repeating myself. I just spent my vacation working with the following organizations: <a href="http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/statement.asp" target="_blank">Veterans for Common Sense</a>, <a href="http://www.epic-usa.org/" target="_blank">Education for Peace in Iraq</a>, (Erik Gustafson is the director of EPIC and is a Gulf War Vet and a good friend), and <a href="http://www.mfso.org/pages/1/" target="_blank">Military Families Speak Out</a>. It's you telling me what I think and what I care about that pisses me off. Ask Rooster if I care about US soldiers. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
my point exactly

[Megadeth]

I don't think he was talking about you, dick.

[TheMojoPin]

The WORST part of this is that if Saddam actually has WMD, he's most likely to use them if we invade and he sees no way out. Sure, America itself would be safe, but thousands, maybe more, US troops would be killed.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

This whole thing annoys the hell out of me, both sides.

If you ask someone who's for this war why they're behind it, they'll say "Look at 9/11, that's why" as if Hussein was behind it, or they'll be convinced somehow that he'll give something to bin Laden (even though Hussein's a Sunni and bin Laden's a Shi'ite, and they hate each other almost as much as they hate Jews)

Wow.

First Contra and I come together over 2Pac, now I'm totally in agreement with LiquidCourage.

Is this Dimension X?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

Who wants pie?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-23-03 @ 11:44 PM

[LiquidCourage]

We should park a few of our subs in the Mediterranean and threaten to blow the 5 biggest Arab capitals off the planet if anymore shit goes down.

[LiquidCourage]

We already know Saddam has chemical and biological weapons

Well, not everybody does. I can't believe these tools who doubt that he has this stuff still and scream "Let the weapons inspectors do their jobs!"

[LiquidCourage]

I wasn't talking about you.
I didn't even read your post.
I'm talking about everyone in general. They either take one stupid stance one way, or a bullshit stance the other way.

[FiveB247]

We already know Saddam has chemical and biological weapons with ability to use them in short range capabilities. He will use them on US troops and Israel if we attack. It will be an ugly, ugly war if we invade.

[Yerdaddy]

I don't think he was talking about you, dick.
I think he was, moron.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
my point exactly

[TheMojoPin]

Well, not everybody does. I can't believe these tools who doubt that he has this stuff still and scream "Let the weapons inspectors do their jobs!"

Because the last time the inspectors left, Iraq's WMD capabilities had been reduced to silm or nil. Iraq would have had maybe 5 years then to build up these programs from the ground up. If the US honestly knows that Saddam has capabilities to severely nuke/gas/bomb his neighbors or even us, they should have immediately presented the evidence to the necessary allies (As secretly as possible) to gain the necessary international support (Face facts...we have not won many major, drawn-out millitary campaigns completely by ourselves in the 20th century) and THEN have gone about dismantling the current Iraqi regime. If we have this rock-solid "evidence", why have our leaders not presented it to our allies to get them on our side? Who could possibly say "no" to an invasion if we have concrete proof that Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapon or bio/chem weapon capabilities? If he could threaten us, he could certainly threaten our allies in Europe...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-23-03 @ 11:58 PM

[Yerdaddy]

I'm talking about everyone in general. They either take one stupid stance one way, or a bullshit stance the other way.
You're talking about about a huge number of people from all walks of life, and you refer to them as tools for their views. You're referring to veterans of the Gulf War, Vietnam, Korea and WWII. You're talking about families with troops deployed in the Gulf right now, republicans, church groups, members of congress, business leaders, etc. Then you accuse them of taking a "bullshit stance", yet I've never seen a bit of substance in your posts. You do exactly what you bitch about with your glib generalizations. I don't give a shit about your opinions, but you're insulting some people that I have alot of respect for. I don't care enough to have a pissing contest with you on this, but I'd suggest knowing who you're talking aobut before you throw out sweeping insults. And try throwing in a fact once in a while, I'm told it makes your points stronger.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
that's tree hugging hippie freak to you

[Dewey]

I could be wrong about this, but I think the entire buildup is intended to oust Saddam without a war. He can talk the cocky talk all he wants, but when he sees all hell-fire about to reign down on him, and see that noone is going to step in and stop it, he'll be outta there. If not voluntarily, then by the hand of those close to him who don't want to die.

I also think people who ask what we are doing over there are very shortsighted. It is a fact that Saddam is desperately trying to acquire nuclear capability. If he does so, he will hold the entire Middle East hostage. Can you imagine him going into Kuwait again, or Saudi Arabia, and saying "If you try and stop me I'll nuke Israel." What then?

<IMG SRC="http://www.agw-werbeartikel.de/images/easy-rider.jpg"><br>"Still searching for America."

[LiquidCourage]

You're talking about about a huge number of people from all walks of life, and you refer to them as tools for their views. You're referring to veterans of the Gulf War, Vietnam, Korea and WWII. You're talking about families with troops deployed in the Gulf right now, republicans, church groups, members of congress, business leaders, etc.


Wow, that's got to be both the most ridiculious, as well as stupidest thing I've ever read.

[LiquidCourage]

You missed my ENTIRE point of my post.

I'm not adding anything onto this.

[Yerdaddy]

what are you 5?

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
that's tree hugging hippie freak to you

[Bergalad]

Hey Mojo, two things. First, right we haven't fought any major conflicts without some support from others, but I wouldn't say the same is true now. We didn't really need any other countries during Desert Storm, and we need them even less now. Benefits of being the only remaining superpower. Second, on this Iraq thing. Take a look if you can at the editorial from today's USA Today. They talk about where the onus should really lay in all this: on Iraq. The Security Council's resolution in November was very explicit, and Saddam has still not complied with it fully. The world keeps looking to the US for the 'smoking gun' but in reality (as the editorial clearly states) Iraq has broken their agreement yet again and is subject to action. And also, let's not forget that the Gulf War Treaty was signed by Iraq with the United States, not the UN. Iraq has broken, by their own admission, that treaty, and therefore under international law we are permitted to go back in and enforce that 1991 agreement. <P>

[Bergalad]

You're referring to veterans of the Gulf War, Vietnam, Korea and WWII <P>
Hey! How dare you leave out the veterans of Granada and Panama?! Sheesh! <P>

[fluffernutter]

You do exactly what you bitch about with your glib generalizations. I don't give a shit about your opinions, but you're insulting some people that I have alot of respect for. I don't care enough to have a pissing contest with you on this, but I'd suggest knowing who you're talking aobut before you throw out sweeping insults.


yerdaddy is my new hero! That was great.

I always read these posts because there are some well informed people on here and I respect all of your opinions. I never respond to any though because I have not the faintest clue on how to have a political discussion or debate or even explain politically on my mind. I am not retarded, just not great with words. Now, I will shut up.

<IMG SRC="http://home.1asphost.com/bobimpact/fluff1.gif ">

Thanks FelixDelGato and BobImpact

[TheMojoPin]

There was a massive international support system (supplies, transportation, tech, repairs, millitary force, etc) during Desert Storm. While the US clearly made up the majority, we were nowhere near "going it alone".

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[LiquidCourage]

We didn't need anybody else for Desert Storm.
It was all out of looking good politically that everyone added a little in.

[LiquidCourage]

We need other countries throughout the Middle East and Europe to host our troops, planes and supplies.


That's about all we need them for (in order to pull off a successful military operation. I'm not saying their opinions don't matter.)

Other than that you'd be naive to think that we're not light years ahead of most everyone military speaking.

[LiquidCourage]

We need to find someone to bomb to calm everyone down over Iraq.

[LiquidCourage]

Yeah, last I checked Switzerland didn't have Stealth bombers with laser guided Daisy Cutters.

[Bergalad]

There was a massive international support system (supplies, transportation, tech, repairs, millitary force, etc) during Desert Storm

It was PR then, just like it is now. Yeah sure we'll take them, but the stuff other countries supply is limited because militarily and technologically they are way behind the U.S. America wants the International Seal of Approval, but we don't necessarily want them to step in physically.

[TheMojoPin]

Gulf War Facts
The Coalition
The Allied coalition consisted of 34 countries, including Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Honduras, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, The Netherlands, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Syria, Turkey, The United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The U.S. had more than 500,000 troops in the Persian Gulf War, while the non-U.S. coalition forces equaled roughly 160,000, or 24 percent, of all forces.


<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

How do any of you KNOW that we're so scary-badass? We haven't had the chance to actually pull off what you're talking about. And again, this is an international affair, even if we're the sole millitary force. We need other countries throughout the Middle East and Europe to host our troops, planes and supplies. We simply canNOT do it alone.

And what about the cost? Look at our economy...we have a huge defecit...we just can't foot the bill ourselves. Check out the financial stats from the last go-around...

"The U.S. Department of Defense has estimated the cost of the Gulf War at $61 billion; however, other sources say that number could be as high as $71 billion. The operation was financed by more than $53 billion pledged by countries around the world, most of which came from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States ($36 billion) and Germany and Japan ($16 billion). Some of the money pledged by countries such as Saudi Arabia was delivered in the form of in-kind services to troops, such as transportation and food."

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-24-03 @ 12:43 AM

[Bergalad]

Mojo...please. Look at this link http://www.desert-storm.com/War/nations.html. All those nations combined had 65 deaths. A good chunk of those were from aircraft being shot down. Yeah, those countries 'contributed', but the majority of those units never saw any action at all. Didn't need them then, don't now.

[FiveB247]

I find it so funny how people only remember or remark on some parts or small aspects of a situation.

[TheMojoPin]

I know the casualty listing. I clearly stated that even if we can be the sole millitary force, we simply cannot cover the costs ourselves, nor can we actually stage a war overseas without help from other nations, even if only to house, transport and stage our troops, planes, vehicles and supplies.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bergalad]

How do any of you KNOW that we're so scary-badass?


We really are. Enjoy it.

[Patches]

Mojo...

Yes we are that badass... Reagan and Bush #1 didnt spend all that military budget on hookers and booze. The mantra of our military since the early 80s is to be so far above and beyond the rest of the world that war would be avoided simply out of fear.

Guess who's not getting another term from the great unwashed populace? A-HYUCK-A-DOOKLE-DOOOOOO!!!


Guess what? As a country we looove winners. He wraps this whole thing up neatly by re-election, GW-Shitforbrains will be reelected. Remember, there are ALOT of people btn NY and LA.

<IMG SRC=http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/sigpic4.jpg>

<b>Osama Bin Laden, you can kiss my royal Irish ass! And I live in Rockaway. And this is my face, bitch!
-FF Mike Moran</b>

[DarkHippie]

The question isn't who's going to win this war. The question is why are we making this war happen. We've gone through the proper channels (the UN) and it doesn't look like they agree. So how can we, in proper conscience, continue to invade another country when the rest of the world says no? Are we not charter members of the UN? if we helped make the rules, and we enforce them for every other country, shouldn't we abide by them as well? If we continue with this war, we will have no right to ever tell another country not to invade. I'll be damned if I let my country become "the land of hypocrites"

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

This message was edited by DarkHippie on 1-24-03 @ 10:19 AM

[Bergalad]

The question is why are we making this war happen. We've gone through the proper channels (the UN) and it doesn't look like they agree. So how can we, in proper conscience, continue to invade another country when the rest of the world says no?
First, we are not 'making this war happen', Iraq is through their defiance. So what should we do since you agree the UN is impotent and unwilling to enforce its own edicts? You are correct that we are one of the founders of the UN, and as a leader we need to do just that: lead. Just because the rest of the world hides their heads in the face of potential problems, the United States doesn't have to follow suit. We are not a nation of hypocrites, rather we are one of a handfull of nations who actually backs up what they say. The hypocrites you refer to are the ones in the UN afraid to hold Saddam to his obligations after 11 years.

[Abrasive Dean]

First, right we haven't fought any major conflicts without some support from others, but I wouldn't say the same is true now. We didn't really need any other countries during Desert Storm, and we need them even less now.


Bergalad,

speaking as someone who was directly involved in the British air support operations during the Gulf War I have to tell you that you are misinformed.

Even US forces are finite and one of the key ways in which any operation requiring coordination of land forces operating in hostile foreign territory is to provide a literal overview of the battle area.

This was performed by AWAC aircraft which were both British and American and whilst the aircraft look similar they have very different capabilities.

Abilities like being able to determine the identity of moving ground targets such as Tanks, troops etc are key to such an enterprise. Sufficient to say both countries aircraft do some things better than others.

I will state now that the US will NOT be able to attack IRAQ without UK AWAC support.

There are many other areas where the US forces abilities are augmented by other nations armed forces sometimes often secretly.

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deanmcg/sig/cam.jpg">

[FMJeff]

This war is pointless. We are fucking bullies. I have no intention of fighting for this country, and when they ask me, I'm renouncing my citizenship and moving to Canada.

<center><img src="http://members.aol.com/sabanj666/ass.gif">
<br>
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. </center>

[LiquidCourage]

Don't be a puss.

[JiZ]

I don't think we are over our heads. I do agree that we are major bullies and this war is nothing more than getting revenge for GW's father. I also have a large number of family who are from Israel and I do worry about them. If and when there is a war, I do hope this Bush doesnt plead with Israel to show restraint and not protect itself. I know that may sound harsh, but I am extremely prejudiced towards Arabs. Before I get flamed and all...I know that prejudice is wrong. I dont get it from anyone in my family so its not like it was taught to me. I guess when u have a chance to see the stuff that some people only see on tv, it tends to change a persons views. Oh well, it should be interesting to see how the U.N. treats us after this war begins.

Please excuse the name...My Brooklynlivecam username seems to have been killed

This message was edited by JiZ on 1-24-03 @ 1:14 PM

[LiquidCourage]

If and when there is a war, I do hope this Bush doesnt plead with Israel to show restraint and not protect itself.




That would be disastrous. Do you understand what would happen if Israel attacked Iraq?


and this war is nothing more than getting revenge for GW's father.


At least SOMEONE's using their head instead of using the same old bullshit "Oil! Oil! Oil!" chant.

[Grand Master B]

I just hope we occupy the country when we are done. Rip everything those people ever built out, and rebuild from scratch. Welcome our new 52nd state! Finally we can have a vacation and produce oil at the some time. Things can't get better. <P>

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/cue2see/slapnuts.jpg" ALT="GMB" HEIGHT=100 WIDTH=300>
New Sig Pic in the works.
I got yelled at by sunndoggy8... he didn't like my muscles
Because "I" said so...

[JiZ]

Take a look at the possible results of a war....I know it's long but scary too!

http://www.idleworm.com/nws/2002/11/swf/iraq2.swf

Please excuse the name...My Brooklynlivecam username seems to have been killed

[A.J.]

this war is nothing more than getting revenge for GW's father.


Right. Bush is going to meet with Saddam and Kim Jong Il at Louie's Restaurant in the Bronx and give them two shots apiece in the head. Hopefully, Cheney found someone good to tape the gun behind the toilet.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

[Bergalad]

Abilities like being able to determine the identity of moving ground targets such as Tanks, troops etc are key to such an enterprise. Sufficient to say both countries aircraft do some things better than others.

Not to ridicule your extensive experience with military equipment, but the AWAC is used to detect airborne threats (and some naval vessels), not land units. The JSTARS platform is the asset used to detect ground systems and MTIs. Wouldn't want you to be 'misinformed'. Now sod off.

[FiveB247]

Jeff, I'm with you...I'd never fight for this country either..but I think I'd move to the Carribean though.

[LiquidCourage]

Wow, an entire message board full of pussies.

[DarkHippie]

That would be disastrous. Do you understand what would happen if Israel attacked Iraq?
Ding ding ding! I think we have a winner for the most hypocritical statement on the board. Its ok for America to invade Iraq, but God forbid Israel, our ally, and the country who is most at risk from attack do anything. according to your way of thinking, no country is above the law except for us. well this doesn't sit with me, so get your skewed logic and name calling and take it OUT OF MY COUNTRY! Go find a deserted island in the South Pacific where you can keep at your half-assed ideas, Professor Chaos, cause we sure as hell don't need them here.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[LiquidCourage]

Did I ever say I was for the war?

Thanks for jumping to conclusions.

[FMJeff]

Wow, an entire message board full of pussies.


Nothing to do with being a pussy. There is an agenda here that has nothing to do with the disarmement of a country that is way beyond the striking range of the US. WWII had a purpose. The people that died in WWII are considered heroes. Vietnam had no purpose. War with Iraq has no purpose. Both are impoverished nations with insignificant military capabilities. There's no honor in this battle. If this was WWII, show me where the nearest fucking base is, I'd be jumping out of planes with the 101st sticking to the facists with a thompson and a death wish.

I hope North Korea invades while our entire fucking army is in the middle east. If I were Saddam I'd have planned this out with Pynonang years ago.



<center><img src="http://members.aol.com/sabanj666/ass.gif">
<br>
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. </center>

[DarkHippie]

Did I ever say I was for the war?

Thanks for jumping to conclusions.

Sorry, I was merely reading your posts and basing my comments on those. I guess instead you must be a contrary and an instigator with no real position on anything.

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[A.J.]

War with Iraq has no purpose. Both are impoverished nations with insignificant military capabilities.

Part of the rationale for a war with Iraq is to PREVENT them from developing a significant military capability (or capabilites) namely nuclear, biological and/or chemical weapons: weapons which they may or may not threaten to use. There is historical precendent as Iraq used chemical weapons in their war with Iran as well as on the Kurdish minority. We can (and have) debate whether or not this is a legitimate threat but I think we need to be concerned about such weapons falling into the hand of Saddam Hussein the way they did in North Korea.

The people that died in WWII are considered heroes. Vietnam had no purpose. War with Iraq has no purpose...There's no honor in this battle.

We can argue about the "legitimacy" of any conflict but I hope that we can all agree that the men and woman who died in ALL of our wars died with honor in the service of their country.

I hope North Korea invades while our entire fucking army is in the middle east. If I were Saddam I'd have planned this out with Pynonang years ago.

For the past 30 years U.S. policy has been geared toward the ability to fight in 2 Major Regional Conflicts. The U.S. Central Command will be responsible for any conflict in the Middle East. The U.S. Pacific Command, which has bases in Hawaii and Japan, and the ground forces in Korea would be responsible for any conflict there. World War II proved the U.S. could fight and win a two-theater war. Would allied help be important? Of course. Are we vulnerable in Korea if there's a flare-up in Iraq? Not necessarily.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.



This message was edited by AJinDC on 1-25-03 @ 1:38 PM

[Bergalad]

War with Iraq has no purpose.

Any war would be over, among other things, complete disarmament of Iraq. The UN Security Council Resolution authorizes consequences for Iraq's continued flouting of their responsibilities.
I'd be jumping out of planes with the 101st sticking to the facists with a thompson and a death wish.

The 101st is Air Assault, so go try the 82nd.
I hope North Korea invades while our entire fucking army is in the middle east.

Why would you say that? An attack by N Korea puts the lives of tens of thousands of US servicemen and women in grave danger. I will assume you are just spouting off without thinking.

[LiquidCourage]

I see DarkHippie, because I hold ANY right wing views, I must be for ANY war of ANY kind.

[LiquidCourage]

I hope North Korea invades while our entire fucking army is in the middle east.

And hopefully you're tortured and executed for treason.

[FiveB247]

First off...I'm not a pussy for not wanting to fight for our nation. I give respect and recognition to our members of the armies...that takes courage. I choose not to fight for it for diplomatic and policy issues.

Ps...see how quickly the un-agreeing are pursecuted...

[DarkHippie]

I see DarkHippie, because I hold ANY right wing views, I must be for ANY war of ANY kind.
Do you even read what you type?

<IMG SRC=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/darkhippie2.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[LiquidCourage]

FiveB247, I wasn't talking about not wanting to fight for ANY war we're in, I was talking about if another Pearl Harbor kind of thing happened.

I wouldn't want to fight over this Iraq situation either.