its CHRISTMAS TIME.. not holdiay time... [Archive]

Hawiian shirt craig

12-17-2002, 08:36 AM

this chaps my ass to no end.
There are two major events in
christianity, that define
it... christmas and easter.
look at the other "holidays"
in december. Hannukah
celebrates teh winning of a
battle, and the subsiquent use
of a lamp that didn't have
enough oil. great? yes. the
basis of a religeon? no. yes
theres presents and all, but
oh well. Kwanza? piss me off
to no end. a fabricated
holiday to celebrate african
heritiage. fuck you. i dont
respect it, b/c no one
respects St. Patricks day as
anything but a drunken slug
fest. and new years,
somethign to celebrate i
agree.

but i hate that i have to be
fucking PC and say happy
holidays, b/c honestly
everything else is very minor
compared to christmas. now if
yom kippur was in december,
i'd embrace it. if kwanza was
tehre just for shits and
giggles, i'd embrace it.

so we'er gonna have the hap
hap happies christmas since
bing crosby tap danced with
DANNY FUCKING KAY! its not
"holiday time" b/c its
christmas time. i dont go
saying its holiday time b/c i
celebrate columbus day around
the same time as yom kippur.
****************

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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DarkHippie

12-17-2002, 08:43 AM

someone's full of the christmas spirit

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AngelAmy

12-17-2002, 08:45 AM

:D im not the only one who likes the movie white christmas

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wolfrakr

12-17-2002, 09:03 AM

Thank You Hawaiian Shirt Craig I applaud your comments and agree.

We just had our comapny christmas pary - not a huge company - 50 employees, 1 is jewish - 1 - and we were all given a memo to respect his wishes and refer to it as a holiday party - why??? It's for christmas, chanukah was over weeks ago anyway whatever - at least it safe to say Merry Christmas here.

A.J.

12-17-2002, 09:09 AM

50 employees, 1 is jewish - 1 - and we were all given a memo to respect his wishes and refer to it as a holiday party -

I'm not one for over-excessive political correctness but in this case I think it's only fair to be mindful of a Jewish co-worker. If nothing else, Christmas IS a religious celebration and it would be rather stupid to wish "Merry Christmas" to someone who is not of the same faith.

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Jennitalia

12-17-2002, 09:10 AM

as long as i get presents, i dont care what it's called

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PanterA

12-17-2002, 09:10 AM

I'm offended by the word holiday.

I want everyone to wish me a very Merry Day Off.

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<center><img style="backround:COLOR" style="color:RED" style="border style:solid" src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/rfsigchristmas"></center><center>Merry Christmas</center>

nellie

12-17-2002, 09:32 AM

but it was decided that christmas would be celebrated on the 25th of december because yule (a pagan holiday) is around that time.

and easter is around the same time as ostara (another pagan holiday) the idea of "easter" eggs came from ostara, eggs were used as a symbol of fertility.
yule- http://www.wicca.com/celtic/akasha/yule.htm

ostara- http://www.wicca.com/celtic/akasha/ostara.htm

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This message was edited by nellie on 12-17-02 @ 3:45 PM

Contra

12-17-2002, 09:44 AM

yes craig, i'm sure everyone loves chrismas because of the religious significance.

now you have a happy holiday season, I SAID HAVE IT DAMMIT!!!

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Coco

12-17-2002, 09:50 AM

If it makes people feel good to do things let them. It doesn't harm me or bother me in any way. At one point, thanksgiving, valentines day, president's day, father's day, etc. were all dreamed up.

______________________

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This message was edited by Coco on 12-18-02 @ 12:23 PM

flipper21

12-17-2002, 10:14 AM

Uh, don't forget Boxing Day.

And a Happy Feast of St. Stephen to you and yours.

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Happy Holidays to all!

AngelAmy

12-17-2002, 10:18 AM

my birthday should be celebrated by all

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JustJon

12-17-2002, 10:22 AM

yes, Hanukah is a minor holiday. We Jews know it. But it's a celebration holiday. We have a few of those.

What about Ramadan? We should be celebrating that instead.

Ok, who gets to piss in Craig's cornflakes next?

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DarkHippie

12-17-2002, 11:23 AM

I think Craig is absolutley right. We should ignore the fact that other cultures exist besides Christianity, or just incorporate them into the group. Where would christianity be if it weren't for assimilation? We can hang big signs up that say "Merry Christmas: Love it or Leave it"

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flipper21

12-17-2002, 11:37 AM

Ok, who gets to piss in Craig's cornflakes next?

In keeping with the holiday spirit, I'd like to piss in his eggnog.

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Happy Holidays to all!

A.J.

12-17-2002, 11:42 AM

Where would christianity be if it weren't for assimilation?

"Resistance is futile."

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Violent Jay

12-17-2002, 12:39 PM

kwanza is a comunist holiday

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Hawiian shirt craig

12-17-2002, 04:07 PM

hey hippy, i respect other cultures. i recognize that christianity and judeahism and islam as the same at the core. to me, its all the same god so who gives a feck? i just hate that christmas, the very defination of christianity is competed with by holidays that are very unimportant to the people who celebrate them. the spiritual significance of hanukah in minor compared to christmas.

and i dont respect kwanza for a simple reason, its a half assed pagan holiday. and dont gimme taht shit about christmas being an extension of a pagan tree god's feast on the winter solstice, ok?

what it boils down to is that everyone wants a piece of the pie in december and i think its disrespectful to expect me to trivialize a holiday that is 1/2 of my religeon's foundation, by combining it with several other ones that are minor to their religeons.

like i said if yom kipur and romadan and christmas all fell at the end of december, i'd say happy holidays. but you dont park your dodge viper next to your bicycle and roller skaets and say here are my vehicles. u say heres my viper. FIN

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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Death Metal Moe

12-17-2002, 04:30 PM

Jesus is the Reason for the Season!

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 12-17-02 @ 9:36 PM

Alice S. Fuzzybutt

12-17-2002, 05:05 PM

Great now Moe is baking candied babies. Fucking canibal!

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TheMojoPin

12-17-2002, 05:06 PM

I thought people said "happy holidays" because New Years was right after Xmas, so it's just summing up the whole season. I've been hearing for at least 20 years, so I doubt it's "PC"...it's just commercial...

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Alice S. Fuzzybutt

12-17-2002, 05:24 PM

I thought people said "happy holidays" because New Years was right after Xmas,

God, that is SO 2001!

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TheMojoPin

12-17-2002, 06:22 PM

God, that is SO 2001!

You should see me wearing my visor upside-down and sideways, headed out for a rave with my Ecstasy dad, wondering whether Justin or Britney will ever break up, dreaming of the day Carson Daly would have his own talk show, thinking that this nifty-keen economy would NEVER end, and loving the fact that O&A will never, NEVER have to be off the air.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-17-02 @ 10:38 PM

jamesdiggy

12-17-2002, 06:43 PM

its CHRISTMAS TIME.. not holdiay time...

No, It's Vader time!

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Coco

12-18-2002, 08:54 AM

HSC: I consider you a nice guy, but you must have known you were going to get flack about this thread. Here's what I think:

i just hate that christmas, the very defination of christianity is competed with by holidays that are very unimportant to the people who celebrate them.

How can you say that holidays celebrated by those outside of Christianity are unimportant to them?

and i dont respect kwanza for a simple reason, its a half assed pagan holiday.

I always thought it was a celebration of the basic values of Arican culture. I mean, I may be wrong here (maybe someone who celebrates Kwanzaa can enligthen us further).

and dont gimme taht shit about christmas being an extension of a pagan tree god's feast on the winter solstice, ok?

You are right on this one, Christmas was never meant to be a celebration of the winter solstice. I believe that the reason it is celebrated on 12/25 is because no one is exactly sure of the exact date of the birth of Christ and the Church thought it appropriate to choose 12/25 (the time of winter solstice) as just a symbolic reference to the fact that it is the time of year when "more light enters into the world".

what it boils down to is that everyone wants a piece of the pie in december

Giving and love is what Christianity is all about isn't it?

and i think its disrespectful to expect me to trivialize a holiday that is 1/2 of my religeon's foundation, by combining it with several other ones that are minor to their religeons.

My Christmas isn't trivialized because of what others celebrate. Also, many people who celebrate Kwanzaa also celebrate Christmas.

______________________

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This message was edited by Coco on 12-18-02 @ 12:55 PM

Hawiian shirt craig

12-18-2002, 09:15 AM

i know i'm gonna get flack
coco, and i apreciate you
breaking down ur post so well.
How can you say that
holidays celebrated by those
outside of Christianity are
unimportant to them?

simple, they're not. Hanukah
is significant to many people
b/c of presents, honestly.
i've asked around, and most of
my jewish freinds are almost
totally ignorant of the fact
that the holiday ISN'T the
reason the jewish faith
exists. they just assume.
bothers me. and like i said,
i dont begrudge people to
celebrate anything they want,
just dont expect me to give a
fuck, and trivialize christmas
over it.
I always thought it was
a celebration of the basic
values of Arican culture. I
mean, I may be wrong here
(maybe someone who celebrates
Kwanzaa can enligthen us
further).

from what i gather each day of
kwanza represents a "african
value" but the ceremonies are
a half assed gathering of
african religeous rituals.
this is so hypocritical coming
from a comunity that wants to
break down racial barriers.
tehy are establishing a hoiday
only blacks are invited in to.
imagine if i started a holiday
about how great it is to be
white? nope. not to mention
that it was intentionally
placed after Xmas so it
wouldn't compete, but that
assumes thes people
celebrating are christian, and
thus shouldn't be
participating in half assed
pagan ceremonies!!!!!
the Church thought it
appropriate to choose 12/25
(the time of winter solstice)
as just a symbolic reference
to the fact that it is the
time of year when "more light
enters into the world".

please dont get me in to "the
church" and lame catholic
horse shit. theres a reason
i'm not catholic, and that the
catholic church is a mess
right now. but yeah, the
whole tree thing came from a
german god that had something
to do with trees.
Giving and love is what
Christianity is all about
isn't it?

knew that was coming. yes it
is, but in the same respect
you dont give a man a lovely
gun to kill himself... not to
compare holidays to suicide.
i love people, not what they
think.

My Christmas isn't
trivialized because of what
others celebrate. Also, many
people who celebrate Kwanzaa
also celebrate Christmas

your christmas IS trivialized
not b/c of what others do, but
what they attempt to impose on
you. not to mention how they
attempt to kind of congeal all
of these very different types
of celibrations together.
christmas, birth of god
himself on earth... Hannukah,
god helps jews win major
battle and does the lamp oil
trick, Kwanza... see what i
wrote above.

and if you celebrate kwanza
with christmas, do your self a
favor and reevaluate why.
****

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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TheMojoPin

12-18-2002, 09:40 AM

You don't have to be black to celebrate Kwanzaa. I went to a few ceremonies a couple years back when I was college just to see what went down. It really has nothing to do with Christmas, and is simply placed at Christmastime to remind other blacks and the rest of the world that not everyone is Christian, nor do they want to be, nor do they have to be. It's not meant to take away from Xmas itself, hence why it's celebrated AFTER Xmas, but just as a "reminder" of sorts for people who may want to retrace their lost heritage at a time of the year when many might feel alienated because they don't share the same beliefs or "birthright". One of the first things black slaves were forced to do was convert to Christianity, so a lot feel that this holiday represents something that really isn't a part of them.

And come on, if you're going to be mad at anything, be mad at Christmas itself. Ask anybody on the street, and most of them will say that this time of year is all about money, gifts, TV specials, shopping and Santa. Jesus took a backseat to commercial wantings a long, loooooong time ago. "Happy Holidays" has been around for decades, and was probably devised by some advertising whiz in the 50's who wanted an easy way to sum up the three major holidays that hit this time of year and pack the stores with shoppers. No big deal.

Besides, you're just railing about what's important to YOU. I celebrate Xmas as a time of giving and sharing, but I find New Years to be far more important to me with its ideas of a second chance and personal "rebirthing". So to each their own. Quit raging against a non-existent machine.

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bigbaldirish

12-18-2002, 10:18 AM

in my experience with jewish people and hanukah(i can't spell it, sorry) their parents only gave gifts when they were little so they didn't feel left out in a majorly christian community.
as a kid most of us didnt think of the religious aspect of christmas, it was the new stuff you got for the first day back to school.

as far as kwanzaa goes...
some people's ancestors didn't have a choice in there religion. so i can understand it to a point.

HSC, if this comes of sounding like an attack on your post, it's not. just voicing my opinion. and we all know what opinions are like....

DC Reed

12-18-2002, 11:11 AM

I have expirienced this "holiday censorship" twice.

Every year my drama dept. puts on a show "holiday" show with X-mas songs and one Jewish song (Let there be peace). We take disney and other hot characters from TV and movies, and act out the songs as they are played and sung by the choir. This year im John from peter pan (and theres some adorable pictures too) And everything is christmas based. Despite 95% of the show being about christmas, the word jesus being in the show, and the fact santa comes at the end, we cant just call it the Chantilly Christmas show, it has to be holiday show. Even the jewish kids in the dept. would rather it be a x-mas show, than holiday and in cause you didnt know, i dont think theres any kwanzaa carols for us to act out.......so theres one.

The daily news show i help produce was forced to change from a Countdown to Christmas, to Holiday Countdown. We scrapped the entire project in protest. Number 2.

I understand making everyone feel welcome and not segregating anyone, but why cant we countdown to a day that 90% of our school celebrates.

How is it offensive to the jewish faith or islamic? They dont believe Jesus is the messiah but didnt they believe jesus walked the earth? Correct me if im wrong, but why would it matter, we celebrate the births of our friends and selves without any speculation, why cant we celebrate jesus's birth, even if you do or dont believe in religion?

Plus Islam's holy book, the Quaran, INCLUDES the teachings of Jesus, he may not be thier main leader, but hes still in the book.

Kwanzaa, i didnt know existed until about 7 years ago, but we owe it to the African culture, White settlers and imperialists in Africa destroyed their entire culture for salt, diamonds, rubber etc... so well never know if they had a special x-mas like holiday.

Sometimes everyone in the world should just stop complaining for one second, and try and enjoy whats supposed to be an joyus month for most religions, instead of cat fighting over a silly word that means no dis-respect.

To the world, get over it and go complain about something else, im sick of hearing people tell me "we cant call it a christmas show, its a holiday show." or some other politically correct crap.

Im not trying to say that its wrong to put holiday where X-mas is, but there has to be some common sense left in the world to not complain about stupid stuff like this.

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Gwen

12-18-2002, 11:27 AM

Okay, who invited the Christmas Nazi?

i just hate that christmas, the very defination of christianity is competed with by holidays that are very unimportant to the people who celebrate them. the spiritual significance of hanukah in minor compared to christmas.

No one I know who celebrates Chrsitmas is interested in the fact that its the birth of Christ, the person responsible for their religion, they just care about the presents and whta they need to buy and what lines they need to wait in and where they're gonna get the money for presents etc etc.

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FelixDasGato

12-18-2002, 11:41 AM

Seasons Greetings To All!

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EffMeBoobs

12-18-2002, 01:16 PM

DarkHippie

12-18-2002, 03:40 PM

HSC, did you just say that pagan holidays are half-assed? How many different ways are you going to piss me off in this thread?

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nellie

12-19-2002, 10:09 AM

http://www.wicca.com/celtic/akasha/holindex.htm

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ADF

12-19-2002, 11:10 AM

Christmas is important to me in that it's a time for me to gather with family and friends and have a good time. I don't think Christianity is "based" on any sort of holiday. It's a way of life, no? Personally, I think religion (christian, pagan, judaism, or otherwise) is a waste of time. I don't bother with any of that god stuff. I love my friends and family and enjoy having the opportunity to let them know I care.

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canofsoup15

12-19-2002, 11:26 AM

DC Reed

12-19-2002, 11:31 AM

Buisness chalks the whole gift giving thing, saying it was part of the holiday in the first place.

Because god gave us his son as a gift.........

Why dont they make up another holiday rather than f up the ones we have, im still waiting for the day im giving out independence day presents.
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This message was edited by DC Reed on 12-19-02 @ 3:33 PM

Doogie

12-19-2002, 11:35 AM

Technically Christ was born in Junish sometime...it just got put into the latter half of the year to be a filler for the Christian calendar

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Hawiian shirt craig

12-19-2002, 08:43 PM

No one I know who
celebrates Chrsitmas is
interested in the fact that
its the birth of Christ, the
person responsible for their
religion, they just care about
the presents and whta they
need to buy and what lines
they need to wait in and where
they're gonna get the money
for presents etc etc.

gwen, thats lame. ur right a
lot of people do think that
way, but for those of us who
dont, the other bull shit is
overwhelming. and besides,
santa was a saint... not that
i'm into saints... but if ur
catholic, role with it!!

HSC, did you just say
that pagan holidays are
half-assed?

no i said they were halfassed
pagan holidays (kwanza)... b/c
its not even done right. and
they try to pretend its not.

I love my friends and
family and enjoy having the
opportunity to let them know I
care.

well we see eye to eye on
this... ur more of a christian
than most christians i know.
but christmas is a celebraiton
of more than jesus being born.

anyway, i am not a Nazi, or a
Jew for jesus, or a member of
the christian right, i just
want you to realize that
holidays that people often
consider equal because tehy
are all in december aren't.
its that simple. Hanukah's
importance was elevated to let
jewish children especially
feel apart of the christmas
gift situation. Kwanza, well
its just filth. and romadan
is legitamite, but widely
ignored. what else can i say?
i'm just sick of people
thinking i care if they want
to dilute christmas. like
when they say "have a happy
holiday" as if to say
"they're all the same, pick
one and enjoy it".

I belive the 3 big
moses-stemming religeons are
all the same, at the core.
how ever you plan to deal with
god is fine... but please dont
trivialize how I, and a lot of
otehrs do it... becasue i'd
never trivialize yom kipur or
romadan by throwing them in a
group with some half assed
saint's day and a president's
birthday... ok?

ok i'm done, everyone be
happy... dont over spend, and
try to do something special
for someone u dont know this
year... its more important
than you might think to the
world. pay a stranger's toll,
give a homeless dude an old
coat and a sandwhich or even
just wash ur neighbors car...
it g

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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Death Metal Moe

12-19-2002, 09:22 PM

IF Christmas is gonna cause THIS much trouble, I say we AXE it and make my Birthday, NOvember 29th, a NEW Holiday we exchange gifts on!

Well, not so much EXCHANGE as send all to me.

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fiestygal

12-19-2002, 09:33 PM

kwanza is a comunist holiday

THIS KID RULES!!! he so wise beyond his yrs

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SoccerMom

12-20-2002, 04:11 AM

Happy Birthday to you...
Happy Birthday to you...
Happy Birthday dear Jesus...
Happy Birthday to you

JerryTaker

12-20-2002, 06:58 AM

Buy a bunch of plastic crap to hang all over your house to try to impress your friends and family....

buy a bunch of plastic crap with lights in it to hang outside your house and compete with your neighbors...

Buy stuff for your familiy because the rest of the year you didn't think of them...

Get together with your family, have a big fight, realize they're all alcoholic and remember why you didn't think of them all year....

Who cares what the fuck you call it, just be glad you only have to deal with it once a year, like a good little media-driven automaton...

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Thebazile78

12-20-2002, 07:32 AM

i just hate that christmas, the very defination of christianity is competed with by holidays that are very unimportant to the people who celebrate them. the spiritual significance of hanukah in minor compared to christmas.

Actually, if we're going to discuss the significance of any Christian holy-days, EASTER kicks Christmas's ass any day of the week as "the very definition of Christianity".

The thing that made Christianity appealing to all the peoples it assimilated was not its focus on the here-and-now (i.e.- material gifts), but rather its focus on an afterlife and potential for resurrection (i.e. - Easter and spiritual renewal). Easter is the demonstrable fulfillment of this particular promise.

Christmas is a birthday celebration. Okay, so it's nice and all, but there's not much religious significance in the way you're advocating, here Craig.

If I offend, I plead the case that ten years of Catholic school, 6 years of youth group volunteerism and parents who were CCD teachers will make you too theologically aware for your own good. I don't want to start any fights or anything, especially at Christmas, but your point is weak.

As for the pagan festivals, well, assimilation helps an empire progress. There were many winter solstice-type festivals which were assimilated to come up with Christmas (which, incidentally, if it were celebrated in a calendar-correct year would probably take place in the Spring) as well as Easter, and various spring rites, which can also be traced to some celebrations of the god Apollo.

Anyway, after all is said and done, I STILL wish people a Merry Christmas when it's Christmas. Nothing else feels right.

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windowlck

12-20-2002, 08:21 AM

You know...we would not have these problems now if Strom Thurmond was elected president in 1948

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TheMojoPin

12-20-2002, 08:42 AM

Kwanza, well
its just filth.

You're just a douche.

no i said they were halfassed
pagan holidays (kwanza)... b/c
its not even done right. and
they try to pretend its not.

Right, like the hundreds of millions of "part time", don't-give-a-shit Christians who only go to church on Xmas and Easter because they feel obligated or guilted into it. Ask most of them and they'll just think it's the day Santa delivered baby Jesus to the manger. Christmas isn't done "right" by anyone. It's a day for presents and stuff. Lots of stuff. More stuff than you need.

And for the last time, Kwanzaa is AFTER Xmas. It's not trying to replace Xmas, you can celebrate both. Why aren't you going off on a tirade over the Chinese and Arabic New Years celebrations taking attention away from the "real" one? Please.

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Hawiian shirt craig

12-20-2002, 10:30 AM

Christmas is a birthday
celebration. Okay, so it's
nice and all, but there's not
much religious significance in
the way you're advocating,
here Craig.

you'er right, easter kicks
christmas' ass... but what you
aren't getting is that the
whole jesus/mary situation was
the last "old testiment" type
action by god. not to mention
that fact this was the
begining of jesus' life and
this holiday represents
potential, amongst a thousand
other things. one of the most
important is thanking god for
dropping himself off on earth
in the form of jesus to get
shit on for 30 something
years. this was the begining
of that, and an all together
feel good celebration. it
just gets discounted by PC
fucks.

as for the after life
situation. the
attractiveness of christianity
is how it makes u feel. b/c if
ur just in it for what happens
after you die, ur gonna be in
TROUBLE.

As for the pagan
festivals, well, assimilation
helps an empire progress.

yeah the catholic empire.
honestly most christian text
points away from a giant
central church, but we wont go
thre. christianity is not an
empire, or atleast shouldn't
be. but again, another thread.

MOJO-

you are missing the point.
kwanza was manufactured to let
black people have a holiday to
celibrate africanness. thats
fine, but its very homoginized
and poorly put together. the
concepts are HALF-ASSED.
there is a huge portion of the
black community who agrees
with me. there are many
african scholars who have
spoken against it.

and as to the
commercialization of
christmas, dont know what to
tell you. if you get guilted
into going to church, have a
nice after life.

you guys aren't getting it.
reread the end of my previous
post. this is abotu political
correct horse shit. i dont
discount how you deal with
god, dont discount how i do
it. thats all i'm sayin!
******************************

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T
HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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A.J.

12-20-2002, 10:48 AM

You know...we would not have these problems now if Strom Thurmond was elected president in 1948

Good one!

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TheMojoPin

12-20-2002, 12:02 PM

you guys aren't getting it.

No, YOU'RE not getting it. "Happy holidays" is not a PC term. It's been around for decades, most of the 20th century in fact. It's not something new or nouveau, it's just been made by lazy people for lazy people. It makes people money. It's not designed to make people feel better. You're mixing issues. If you're saying someone calling, say, a school play that's about the birth of Jesus a "Holiday Play" instead of a "Christmas Play", yes, that is PC overreacting. But the simple phrase "happy holidays" is NOT. It primarily addresses JUST Xmas and New Years. That's why it was originally devised. Trust me, it's made by white people for white people.

And I still don't get the Kwanzaa kick. You're discounting an ENTIRE holiday because of some of the festivals and ceremonies are mismanaged or not well-supported. Some, but not all. Some support the celebration in the black community, others do not. But you're only hearing the naysayers, and then talking about the holiday as if it is somehow ultimately detrimental to you. I'm sure the Kwanzaa supporters hardly want or need your "respect", and would probably be much happier if you calmed down and did what most of the rest of us do and go on with our OWN lives. They're not asking or forcing you to celebrate it. Kwanzaa specials aren't all over the television. People aren't singing Kwanzaa carols or buying a Kwanzaa tree. Christmas is safe. It doesn't require everyone's 100% constant attention to survive. Rest easy, little trooper.

and as to the
commercialization of
christmas, dont know what to
tell you. if you get guilted
into going to church, have a
nice after life.

This just confuses things even more, because it almost sounds like that overall you think Christmas is the "best" and most important simply because it's what you believe in. And let's face facts; being Christian, ESPECIALLY Catholic, is all about feeling guilty and regretting EVERYTHING you do in your everday life. I stopped going to church mainly because I didn't need to hear some representative of a being who supposedly loves EVERYTHING about me talk down to me and decry almost every aspect of my life as unowrthy before God week after week.

And I ask again, do you feel the same way about the Chinese and Arabic New Year compared to the western New Year, since it's essentially the same argument?

Eh, it's just a frustrating topic. Craig's still my #1 Wookie.

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