Jimmy Carter...

[Justice4all]

He won the Nobel Prize for his work to accomplish peace.
How many other ex-presidents can you name who have done the same thing. With all his work for habitat for humanity, it is no suprise that he is giving the 1 million in money to charity.
Now I know I may be in the minority here...but I think he was one president who was overlooked for his accomplishments. It was because of him that the hostages were released from Iran. He spent the final hours of his term dedicated to that task and nothing else.
He has tried to give all he could to not only our country but also the world. My hat is off to him...the day he passes is going to be a sad day indeed.
Oh yes...he also named Martin Luther King Jr. as his inspiration and also as a person hero to him.
Not bad comming from a former southern govenor.
He gets my well-deserved respect.
Anyone else with me on this or do I stand alone???

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[ToddEVF]

Jimmy Carter is a real man's man. . . I salute him

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[TheGameHHH]

I don't know enough about him to judge him.

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[Bama]

It's about damn time. He's one of the greats. A real role model in a time when there aren't really any around.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Well I just read in The Star that our "Man of Peace" recently punched a woman in the FACE in an Atlanta Strip Club!

And would a Humanitarian have illigitimate children in 13 states?

And what about his HUGE Cadillac with Baby Seal Skin seat covers?

I don't even WANT to get into his Male Escort arrests!

HMMMMMM? Is this the kind of man YOU want winning a PEACE prize? Seems kinda silly to me.

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[LiquidCourage]

Are you kidding me!?!?
This whole thing is a joke. They're not giving it to him because of what he's done. The Nobel committee has openly said that they're giving it to Jimmy Carter cause he openly disagrees with Bush on Iraq. It's got NOTHING to do with any of the humanitarian stuff he's done. He's a pawn. It's pathetic that he's accepting this like he thinks they're giving it to him over what he's actually done, cause it's definitely not.

[LiquidCourage]

That and the fact that Jimmy Carter is almost universally considered America's greatest ex-President.

No, it's not. The ONLY reason they're giving it to him is because he opposes Bush. It's not the fact that he's trying for peace here, it's the fact that the Eurotrash that runs the Nobel committee are just as much of radical leftists as Carter. It really is pathetic that he's accepting this like he is, cause they told him they're not giving it to him for his other actions.

[Bama]

The Nobel committee has openly said that they're giving it to Jimmy Carter cause he openly disagrees with Bush on Iraq.


It's funny how they give those "peace" prizes to people who are trying to stop war.

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[Death Metal Moe]

It's funny how they give those "peace" prizes to people who are trying to stop war.


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[TheMojoPin]

Great man, awful president. Oh well.

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[Yerdaddy]

The Nobel committee has openly said that they're giving it to Jimmy Carter cause he openly disagrees with Bush on Iraq.

That and the fact that Jimmy Carter is almost universally considered America's greatest ex-President. Immediately after leaving office he formed the Carter Center, which has programs in facilitating programs in democracy, monitoring elections, education, disease, hunger, etc. He convinced Kim Il Sung of North Korea to open talks with South Korea. He negotiated for the military coup leaders to leave Haiti and restore the democratically elected government. He negotiated the cease-fires in Bosnia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda, and other African conflicts. He went to Cuba and criticized Castro on their national television station. His work with Habitat for Humanity has brought prestige and recognition that helps that organization help the poor build their own homes.

Maybe you're right that one factor was the fact that he is opposed to a war that almost every other country in the world, (including those that are supposed to be most at risk from Iraq), are opposed to. But if you think that's the only reason, there are these things called newspapers...

Maybe they should have given it to George Bush, who is spending his retirement going around the Middle East getting big contracts for big companies?

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It was a joke goddammit!

[Gvac]

That and the fact that Jimmy Carter is almost universally considered America's greatest ex-President.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Yerdaddy, you kill me!

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[A.J.]

He won the Nobel Prize for his work to accomplish peace.
How many other ex-presidents can you name who have done the same thing.


Theodore Roosevelt, 1906 for mediating the Russo-Japanese War.

Jimmy Carter is an honorable man but was a lousy President save for the 1978 Camp David Agreement. THAT'S when he should have been a Nobel Prize winner.

And he earned it without lobbying the committee like Clinton did.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Jimmy Carter is a nice guy, but a weak leader. He would make a much better Secretary of State.
Oh yes...he also named Martin Luther King Jr. as his inspiration and also as a person hero to him
I think everyone can agree that Martin Luther King's movement for civil rights in the United States was a noble and peaceful act. Who could have predicted that so many walls would be broken down for minorities and the common man in general, with so little bloodshed? It is so unfortunate that such a great man became Ho Chi Min's puppet in the later years of his life.

It's a good thing Jimmy Carter negotiated for peace in Uganda and Sudan, because they really stuck to the peace agreements didn't they?

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1



This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 12-11-02 @ 1:48 PM

[Jennitalia]

i wonder how he is in bed

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[fileseffer]

Scooby Doo can doo doo,
But Jimmy Carter is
smarter.

[Friday]

It's funny how they give those "peace" prizes to people who are trying to stop war.




This wins my vote for best post of the day.



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[Doogie]

The only thing I can say about Carter is great man, Horrible President...

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[El Mudo]

Theodore Roosevelt, 1906 for mediating the Russo-Japanese War.


I believe Woodrow Wilson won one too for starting the League of Nations..

And the whole thing is a joke. One of the guys on the committee said it was intended as a "kick in the leg" to president bush..


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This message was edited by El Mudo on 12-11-02 @ 3:14 PM

[A.J.]

I believe Woodrow Wilson won one too for starting the League of Nations..


Yep. 1919.

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[Doogie]

I believe Woodrow Wilson won one too for starting the League of Nations..


Yes a League that Wilson created, the US failed to join, the League was powerless and Hitler rose to power in a cake walk...arent the people who give out the Nobel Prize also the same guys who pick "Time's: Man of the Year"...they picked Hitler for God's sake

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This message was edited by Doogie76 on 12-11-02 @ 3:39 PM

[Yerdaddy]

I think everyone can agree that Martin Luther King's movement for civil rights in the United States was a noble and peaceful act. Who could have predicted that so many walls would be broken down for minorities and the common man in general, with so little bloodshed? It is so unfortunate that such a great man became Ho Chi Min's puppet in the later years of his life.
Can you clarify this for me? Other than being opposed to the Vietnam War, how was Martin Luther King Ho Chi Minh's puppet?

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It was a joke goddammit!

[Contra]

well i can say that carter is a presdent that "tried his best". not exactly a great president, but gave it a shot.

he may have freed the hostages from iran, however due to the whole "iran contra" incident it was his fault that they were there in the first place. also many lives were lost in the repeated attempt to save them.

he may be a great humanitarian NOW, but it failed to show along with his political sense during his presidency.

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[Yerdaddy]

Iran Contra was Reagan's administration. How'd you choose the name 'Contra'?

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It was a joke goddammit!

[NewYorkDragons80]

King never seems to condemn the Viet Cong, even when they tortured the South Vietnamese. He never uttered a complaint about the 2,429 South Vietnamese who were killed between the summer of 1965 and the winter of 1966. Nor were there any complaints from King when the Viet Cong guerrillas terrorized a village, including the children. When the Viet Cong executed a village chief and carved flesh from the body of his wife, King still did not utter any complaints. In fact, he once said that he wanted "to help our Viet Cong comrades in arms." Perhaps his wife felt the same way; she went to Hanoi with her friends, as U.S. soldiers were dying in the south Vietnam.
For instance, King said that the Vietnam War was similar to the Nazis trying out "new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe." Because of his outlandish comments, Malcolm Tarlov, the National Commander of the Jewish War Veterans, said King's speech was "an ignorance of facts, pandering to Ho Chi Minh, an insult to the intelligence of all Americans."J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI, said that King was "the most notorious liar in the country."

Source: http://www.rense.com/general19/mlk.htm
I don't totally agree with how the website goes into detail and nitpicks King's life, but there's no denying his quotes regarding the Viet Cong and Communism in general.

Contra was a Nintendo game and it is also French (along with other romance languages) for "Against."

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1



This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 12-13-02 @ 3:54 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Dragon, I don't understand your point. People like that seem to think those kinds of quotes undermine King's larger message of tolerance and non-violence for all people, but they don't. The man wasn't perfect, but he was certainly a champion for a greater, more universal good. In real life Gandhi was an arrogant, prick of a man, but his message still remains the same. And besides, I think if anyone is going to be called a bigger "liar" than King, it would be Hoover.

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[Michael Fury]

In Kurt Cobain's diaries, he expresses admiration for only one person - Jimmy Carter, remembering only that he "liked peanuts" and he seemed to be a "good, honest, smart man."

Which he was. Carter is one of the most well meaning men in history. A religious man, he has always looked for the good in people, especially America's foreign adversaries.

But he never fully recovered from his naive but well-intentioned outlook. Basically, he was a wimp and proved he could not lead. It took the Reagan presidency to bring U.S. power and prestige to new highs around the world.





Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-Tip.

[TheMojoPin]

It took the Reagan presidency to bring U.S. power and prestige to new highs around the world.

You've got something in your throat.

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Michael Fury]

Reagan was a goddamn radical. After the Carter years, Washington hardly knew what had hit it, and tried to eradicate the Reagan presidency like some alien virus (like your comment). But the ideas Reagan brought to politics -- "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" -- were more than mere partisan politics. It was one of the greatest one-man-shows in the history of the presidency.





Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-Tip.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think everyone can agree that Martin Luther King's movement for civil rights in the United States was a noble and peaceful act. Who could have predicted that so many walls would be broken down for minorities and the common man in general, with so little bloodshed? It is so unfortunate that such a great man became Ho Chi Min's puppet in the later years of his life.
Mojo, the above is what I said of Martin Luther King in the first page of this thread. Yerdaddy asked me to explain how he was "Ho Chi Min's puppet," so my most recent post of quotes was an answer to his question. I will never critize his civil rights achievements.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo, the above is what I said of Martin Luther King in the first page of this thread. Yerdaddy asked me to explain how he was "Ho Chi Min's puppet," so my most recent post of quotes was an answer to his question.

It's not like he was a communist or anything. The perspective he came at the Vietnam war with was that we were the aggressor, the invader, and that's what he viewed as most wrong. As a strict pacifist and believer in non-violence, America's actions in Vietnam were against everything he stood for. This does not make him right, but it also doesn't make him a supporter of the Vietcong in terms of, say, collaboration (Like the Hanoi Jane story). And nowhere does it say he CONDONED the actions of those Vietcong attrocities you mentioned. He simply focused on the larger issue in his world, which was, being that he himself was a pacifist American, America's role in Vietnam. King ignored (In that he didn't speak of them publically) hundreds of cases of attrocity and mass murder and oppression around the world during his years in the public eye, but that doesn't mean he didn't oppose them. Like I said, he was only one man, and his focus was on the country of his birth, where he lived, and how it treated people in its borders and abroad.

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[TheMojoPin]

But the ideas Reagan brought to politics -- "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" -- were more than mere partisan politics. It was one of the greatest one-man-shows in the history of the presidency.

Well, you're right about the "show" part...

And come on, let's stop this inane, "Reagan tore down the wall" rhetoric that keeps popping up. Like Clinton and the economy, Reagan was in the right place at the right time. Giving Reagan credit for singlehandedly bringing down "the commies" with his speeches is like saying JFK is solely responsible for the lunar landing and the space program today because of his speech about putting a man on the moon. Yes, words like this can plant seeds of ideas, but the tearing down of the Berlin wall was the natural evolution of communism's flawed structure grinding to a halt. Gorbachev knew his country wouldn't last to the millenium in the state it was in, and began the dismantling(sp?) of the Soviet system, with the Reagan White House's HELP. Reagan didn't do it alone, his people didn't push it to happen, the opporunity came up and they rose to the occasion. He's not a goddamn superhero.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-15-02 @ 3:31 PM

[Yerdaddy]

NewYorkDragons80 - I'm surprised that you would put so much stock in the type of information you just posted. This article that you quote and link to was written by the "CEO" of the <a href="http://ourworld.cs.com/ceoofamcolso/index.htm" target="_blank">American Colonization Society</a>, whose mission statement is:
The American Colonization Society is open to all people, regardless of race or religion, who believe in pursuing the honorable, nonviolent goal of repatriating those African-Americans who would choose to live in their Fatherland.
and their rationolization for continuing this historic white supremecist organization is the last paragraph of their homepage:
The New Millennium is here, and with it comes a new hope as America faces its past. When we look at the violence that consumes America every few years, as race-riots destroy the cities and countless innocent lives, we must take time to pause and reconsider our present course. Could repatriation for a generation's time, financed through the tax-rolls, be the answer to America's problems? The answer to that question, as you will soon see, is an emphatic "YES!"
Clearly the stated belief of this group, and of the person whose article you are citing as evidence of Martin Luther King's being a puppet of Ho Chi Minh, is that the source of "America's problems" is the presence of black people. There is no fucking way that I will waste my time refuting his arguments one by one. From what I read of this article, before I clicked on his link to his homepage, all he was doing is compiling a list of various accusations made about MLK over the years by various segregationists, J. Edgar Hoover, (who devoted more of the FBI's resources to wiretapping the civil rights organizers, leaking propaganda about them to the press, conducting a bizarre plot to harrass MLK and convince him to commit suicide by sending him letters and audio tapes of his affairs, and looking the other way when southern police and racists conspired to beat and kill civil rights activists), Sen. Strom Thurmond, and various other of America's prominent racists. He doesn't cite his sources, he doesn't give context, and he has an obvious agenda.

So unless you have a better source on your opinion of King and Vietnam, I'm going to consider King's opposition to the Vietnam War an honest opposition to the war, based on his commitment to nonviolence, and the general distrust of the motives for US involvement, which was not uncommon at the time.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigelvis.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

[NewYorkDragons80]

In fact, he once said that he wanted "to help our Viet Cong comrades in arms."

Does that sound like a neutral pacifist?

I said that I do not agree with everything the site says. I would ask in the future that if you reply to one of my posts, you read every other post of mine in that thread.

King probably was a Marxist in the sense that he wanted social justice and equal distribution of land, wealth, etc. I wouldn't call him a communist though.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 12-15-02 @ 8:49 PM

[CaptClown]

Personally I think Jimmy Carter was a fine gentleman. However I have no respect for the Nobel Peace Prize after Yasser Arafat won one for "trying" broker peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis while encouraging terrorism against the Israelis.

Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

[Yerdaddy]

You are citing a white supremicist, and you expect me to take his quotes seriously? There is no way in hell I would ever believe anything said by someone like this unless it was corroborated by a better source. Did you notice that if you search the web for that quote he is the only one making this claim? He cites the Congressional Record from 1968, with nobody as a source of the quote. That means that in order to verify that King said it, someone would have to go to the Library of Congress and find that particular record. Also, in this scumbag's book he only gives half the sentence as quote and the rest is his own interpretation: "King told Carmichael that he wanted "to help our Viet Cong comrades-in-arms" by disrupting American cities."
My point is this: Martin Luther King has been the target of mountains of slander, propaganda, and outright lies for the last 50 years. Any jackass can take that shit and make it the basis of a new racist propaganda piece. J. Edgar Hoover did it for over a decade. But that doesn't make it true. Whatever quotes you pull from this piece of shit are worthless in my book!

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigelvis.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

[TheMojoPin]

Does that sound like a neutral pacifist?

Nope. And the fact it singlehandedly contradicts Dr. King's lifetime of work, and how it bears not even the slightest resemblence to any similar sentiment he ever uttered publically leads me to believe that it's wholly inaccurate. If you can back it up, right on, but until then, given the source, it seems like bunkum.

And even if it was true, what then? Does it somehow negate all his other work and beliefs? I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is here.

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[Death Metal Moe]

I think we've moved off the topic here.

Carter likes it Backdoor HARDCORE.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Well I'm sorry that I didn't have a better source. In all honesty my only gripe with King is over the Vietnam War, and the fact that his beliefs had more in common with Ho Chi Min than with the United States government. It is difficult to walk the tightrope of King and the Vietnam War and not be labeled a racist, especially with the groups who agree with my position.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1

[TheMojoPin]

I still don't understand what you're shooting for. King was not a politician. His causes championed social change THROUGH politcal action, but not specific politcal ideologies or practices. His basic premise was that no matter what your politcal affiliation, race or religion, you were equal with your common man, and should be treated as such. It wasn't a communist, "everyone is given equal portions" kind of preaching, more of a, "please don't hang me because I'm darker than you and I just want to eat in the same restaurant as your family" thing. And finding social activists in the 60's who disagreed with the Vietnam War is a little redundant at this point.

Does it really take away from his ultimate message if he felt the Vietcong were the oppressed in this case, and as such he felt a "kinship" with them? It's just his personal opinion on that particular issue. It still doesn't change the fact that his overall message of tolerance and understanding is and should be universal to all people.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 12-17-02 @ 2:06 AM

[Yerdaddy]

For the record, I'm not labeling you a racist, and I don't think you are a racist. Your source is a professional racist, though, and you seem to trust his judgement on the MLK quote, despite the lack of other sources for the quote. You also accuse MLK of being a Marxist and a "puppet of Ho Chi Minh" because of his desire for "social justice and equal distribution of land, wealth, etc.", but with no basis other than his opposition to the war. Social justice is not Marxist dogma, and there's no basis for the "equal distribution of land, wealth, etc." part. I think you don't think Americans should have been opposed to the Vietnam war and you're attacking King because he was a prominent anti-war fugure before his death. Your opinion of the war is valid and fair, but the attack is unfair and unsubstantiated, and should be questioned. I just think you have low standards of evidence for your opinions, and the result is that you continue the character assassination of someone who never wanted anything but for America to live up to it's promise and potential of being a haven for justice and freedom in the world. And for that I can get plenty of sources.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigelvis.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

[TheMojoPin]

For the record, I'm not labeling you a racist, and I don't think you are a racist. Your source is a professional racist, though, and you seem to trust his judgement on the MLK quote, despite the lack of other sources for the quote.

What he said.

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[NewYorkDragons80]

Does it really take away from his ultimate message if he felt the Vietcong were the oppressed in this case, and as such he felt a "kinship" with them? It's just his personal opinion on that particular issue. It still doesn't change the fact that his overall message of tolerance and understanding is and should be universal to all people.
In my opinion it does hurt his image in my eyes. I'm not saying we should take away his holiday or anything, but I think the media tends to deify the man.

I am not making you believe my source. Racists? I guess so (But I didn't see the entire website until Yerdaddy tipped me off,) but Liars? I am not so sure. Being a racist is not a good thing, but it doesn't make you a liar. I believe the quote because if they wanted to lie, they would not have used quotes from Strom Thurmond to back up their other arguments.

Read the "Beyond Vietnam" speech. He criticizes Diem for not carrying out land reform. And if you want to talk about not having a source, King accused Diem of "Ruthlessly rooting out all opposition" and of being "one of the most ruthless dictators the world has ever seen," without mentioning a single thing Diem ever did.

If you read my other posts regarding the American efforts in Indochina, you know that I wholeheartedly support the movement to liberate that region from Communism, and that is my only problem with King and anyone against the Vietnam War. When they protested the war, it indirectly aided communist takeovers in 3 nations.
There is no doubt in my mind, and it was very evident to all of us, that the communist's spirit or morale went up and down along with the amount of demonstrations, protests, and anti-war movement back in the States.
-Colonel Robinson Risner
http://www.thelifeboat.com/images/when_night_fell.htm

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

"Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.
-Romans 12:1