Do You Think Companies Need To Apologize For Slavery?

[Captain Rooster]

Reparations for slavery: apologizing for the past sins of Americans.

Do you think companies still need to say there sorry if they have some historical tie to slavery?

I say NO.

We, as a nation, have apologized a thousand times over and we know the practice was horrible.

What do you think?

I think it will be an excuse to pilfer money from companies and workers who have no connection to slavery.

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This message was edited by LTRooster on 10-3-02 @ 8:26 PM

[Captain Rooster]

Also, I think black Americans should take heart in the fact that nearly 400,000 Union soldiers died for their freedom. Those soldiers paid the ultimate sacrifice; they laid down their lives for the ultimate catharsis related to slavery. They ended the practice almost 200 years ago. They sacrificed so others could be free today. Instead of demanding apologies, let America say thanks to those veterans.




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<center>Valhalla I am coming</center>


This message was edited by gvac on 10-3-02 @ 8:55 PM

[irishkb]

the only way i think we should apologise is if the greeks,egyptians, romans, the african tribes and the english all apologise for it as well.. the united states was only inolved in the ending cycle of slavery unlike the ones i mentioned above.. if all of them apologise then sure so should the United States

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"IM"-mick0306

[Yerdaddy]

Should companies that sold weapons, nuclear materials and chemical and biological agents to Saddam Hussein pay reparations to the Kurds and Iranians? How about companies that exploit children and poor people living in dictatorships and corrupt countries? Companies that pollute the lands that people depend on to survive? Companies that profited from the Holocaust? From South African Apartied? From wars? From prison labor?

It's a much broader issue than just slave reparations - but profiting from unjustices in general. It's the problem I have with the theory that governments should have no hand in capitalism. Unregulated capitalism is 18 hour work days and child labor and unbridled pollution.

As for slavery, I think companies that profitted should pay reparations that go into a fund that pays out in the form of scholarships and community outreach programs.

With all do respect, Rooster, (and without going into the subject of whether the Civil War was fought to preserve the union or to end slavery), blacks fought in every American war, even when they were defending rights that they themselves did not enjoy until the Vietnam War.

(you didn't expect a simple answer from me, did you?)

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

[Hawiian shirt craig]

NO FUCKING WAY!

no one who is alive today
experinced slavery, first
hand. no one who is alive
today owned a slave.

its that simple. yes, blacks
today are experinceing
some side effects, but its
over. some vets of WW2
still hate any asian people...
we dont go appologizing for
that!

so if u think we should
appologize or pay anything,
FUCK YOU AND THE
HORSE YOU RODE IN ON!


-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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San Diego Chargers 4-0

[A.J.]

Only companies that existed prior to 1863.

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A Skidmark production.

[Death Metal Moe]

Apologize, why not.

Pay this Extortion? No way.

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[shit4brains]

Hey Shit4Brains. I was just staring to like you.

Edit your post man. I don't want to see you banned. There IS a line, and I personally feel you crossed it.
-njdmmoe


this message was edited by shit4bains





This message was edited by shit4brains on 10-6-02 @ 2:54 AM

[Captain Rooster]

First off, shit4brains, if you think I want anything to do with the KKK, think again. I think you may want to explain that post, bud.

Yerdaddy,
(you didn't expect a simple answer from me, did you?)



NO, and I appreciate your intelligence, It is always refreshing to read your views.
Thanks;)

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<center>Valhalla I am coming</center>




This message was edited by LTRooster on 10-3-02 @ 11:22 PM

[Megadeth]

This is all bullshit
Their argument for reperations is "Holocaust survivors were paid, American Indians were paid. Where's our money"
Any Holocaust survivor was paid because it actually happened to them, not someone a couple hundred years down the line
American Indians are basically forced to live on small plots of land, so they're also getting it still
There are no living slaves howerer, so they'll get nothing and like it

[Megadeth]

And as much of a dick as Bill O'Reilly was to Opie and Anthony, he really grilled this guy for reperations bad
It was great
He's like "You're trying to extort money from the US government!"

[Death Metal Moe]

Hey Shit4Brains. I was just staring to like you.

Edit your post man. I don't want to see you banned. There IS a line, and I personally feel you crossed it.

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<marquee>People's chioce: MOST VULGAR POSTER!! FUCK YEA!!</marquee>
SUPER CALLER #666!!!

[Captain Obvious]

Well Native Americans can practically get away with murder with all these tax breaks and shit...black people can't get even get away with looking black! Lighten up a little! Give Earl a raise.

- - -
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Each time I post it says "Thank you, Captain Obvious." and it sounds like the computer is being sarcastic with me, I LOVE IT!

[TheMojoPin]

Apologize? Sure, why not. Reparations? No.

What about BMW apologizing for the use of Jewish slave labor in WW2?

At some point, the sins of the past need to be left where they were...in the past. An apology would effectively at least try to finalize some of the pain for the slave era. Reparations would just drag it out and make it a farce.

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[Knowledged_one]

Only if companies that wouldnt hire the irish during the early 1900's through the 1930's also pay reperations for their Irish Need Not Apply signs.

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Thanks Aggie for the Pic and SilentSpic for the sig host

[Dr. Klahn]

OK, All living slaves:

I am personally am sorry for everything that was done to you. From your own people selling you, to the terrible way you were treated when you got to this country.

That being said, I don't think that anyone deserves anything more then that. I doubt that any living person can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they only have slave, or slave descendants as their forefathers.

Once again it sucks what happened to the slaves, but I don't think there should be any reparations payments.


~~~~~~~~~~~<br>We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our spirits in the tradition of our ancestors. You have out gratitude<br><br>Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes. <br><br> Bring back Lenny & Bruce!!!

[my_mr_happy]

ok... I think that companies need to admit and uncoveer if there are things in their past. ... I don't think people nessasarly need to say they are sorry , because I am not going to go around and make calls for things that my grandfather did! How ever.. I am a latin and me and the Indians were here before anyone. I don't need an some political apology or some corprate guy trying to clean up their company image by saying their sorry and taking their picture with me as they dump chemicals in our water. EVERYONE is guilty of something. Lets start with taking responsability NOW for the companies mistakes.. then it will go deeper and find out truths.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Apologize, yes. Reparations? NO! It's extortion.

And shit4brains-- not a cool post. Edit it.

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Fear gives courage wings


This message was edited by Alice S. Fuzzybutt on 10-4-02 @ 10:31 AM

[SuperClerk]

shit4brains. Appropriate name.

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Thanks to Toddevf for sig pic

[DC Reed]

can someone help me understand this, didnt we say sorry for slavery thousands of times already? maybe we should, im not sure, im abit hazy on this subject.

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[Contra]

shit4brains

*White people are so scared of black people*

this is just ridiculous. as yerdaddy agreed to do i'm not going to go into the dispute over the "freeing of the slaves" in the civil war. however i feel that the gov't has done enough in the past as far as "reparations". african americans are as free as the rest of us in this country, and and in the name of "equality" get the same amount of reparations from the gov't that the rest of us do. welcome to america, now stop your bitiching.

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Batosai The Manslayer

[TheMojoPin]

african americans are as free as the rest of us in this country,

I actually agree with the rest of your post, but this is flat out wrong. It's a "skewed" form of equality...let's face it: if you're not a white male, you're going to be deprived of something somewhere or be treated a little less well. It's almost just natural.

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-TMP

[FMJeff]

I think black people should fucking get over themselves with the whole slavery thing. Black people are doing pretty well for themselves now a days and people are bending over to make sure they are happy and unoffended. There will be a point, if it hasn't happened already, where they will start to take advantage.

No. No money for you, no special accomodations for you. Your people were slaves over 200 years ago. Deal with it. My people were slaves were over a millenia, persecuted and eradicated by genocidal madmen. Fucking pay us money.



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<br>
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. </center>

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

OOOHH shit.. thats ruff
(Shit for Brains) Abso-fukin-lutly NOT! what about the American Indians? I'M Sicclian and f' Christopher "take my idea to spain" Co-fukin-lumbus.

ANYONE ONE NO MATER HOW THEY GOT TO THIS GREAT COUNTRY SHOULD THANK GOD THEY ARE HERE... AND STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST I DIDNT BRING "EM OVER SO SHUT-UP ALL READY... THAT>>>>

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

Where's our money"


Megadeth WTF? your money ? Dude be glad you are here and not living in a grass hut or being hunted by the South Africiaqn Governmet. Get real there isnt eve 20th century tecnology over there

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[Hawiian shirt craig]

hey shit for brains... i have
an idea... i am going to ride
on a horse to your house.
then i am going to rape your
mother in her fat disgusting
ass, THEN i am going to
jizz in her eyes. her
screams of pain will make
it all worth it. to finish her
off, i'll let my 30 freinds do
the same until she dies.
then i am going to kill your
father, and ware his ears
on a necklace. all this,
while you watch. if either
one is dead i'll substitute
your sister, cousin, aunt,
whatever... but on top of you
parents grave. THEN i am
going to lynch you. then, b4
you die i'll cut you down and
drag you behind a truck....
then before that kills you i'll
piss on your wounds and
throw u in the filthy
meadowlands.

still like the KKK you sick
cum bucket! the best part of
you ran down your mothers
ass crack and turned in to a
brown matress stain.


-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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San Diego Chargers 4-0

[Coco]

I wouldn't touch this thread with a ten foot pole.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

I wouldn't touch this thread with a ten foot pole.

Oh there you go now we're bringing the pole in on it to geezzz isn't any ethnick group happy here?

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[Sheeplovr]

not till the amish do

number 333 its the way to be
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POWER AND CHAOS

[Drudge Jr.]

concerning holacuast victims; vw and bmw are yet to even come close to adequetly renumerating even direct victims of nazi slave labor which they profited from.



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[Coco]

Now that I think about it..reparations should be made. But they should be made by MANY MANY people as there were a lot of people who profited off this horrendous trade - including African black slave traders and their tribal leaders who traded their own people.

I am not sure that any amount of money would compensate for what happened then.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

This message was edited by Coco on 10-4-02 @ 3:21 PM

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

Not for nothin' but... I see alot of jews driving 'em (BMW MERCADES)

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[Captain Rooster]

the best part of
you ran down your mothers
ass crack and turned in to a
brown matress stain.



Classic Gunnery SGT Hartman reference!


First of all, I understand that there were a lot more issues than just slavery that pulled into Civil War. The thing is, many of the common riflemen and soldiers had the thought of winning freedom for the slaves as a mantra as they fought.

"De Oppresso Liber," is the code of the special forces to this day. Free the oppressed. I agree with that thought now, and I think we had that thought as part of our social concsiousness in 1861.

God Bless America - don't piss on the graves of the people who fought so hard to win the freedoms all Americans have today.

This blackmail, disguised as reparations, makes me sick


We seem to agree on this one. I think we all are sorry for what took place in this coutry 200 years ago.


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<center>Valhalla I am coming</center>

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

See now there you go LT. every time I read you post i get all GUNG HO and wanna get my gear on and kill a commie for mommie..

I JUST CAN"T UNDERSTAND WHAT THIER MAJOR MALFUNCTION IS
(said in a Gunny Heartman Voice)

P.S. The only acceptable slang for any Marine Corp rank is TOP and GUNNY

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[El Mudo]

i dont think they do, but besides whats wrong with the extortion part, is the logistics. How are you going to prove you are actually descended from slaves? the records are so bad its almost impossible.

Secondly, there were blacks that owned slaves. there were indians that owned slaves. should their descendants have to pay too?

Thirdly:

The thing is, many of the common riflemen and soldiers had the thought of winning freedom for the slaves as a mantra as they fought.


only those from around massachusetts rooster. most federals from the midwest and midatlantic were in it to "preserve the union"(a whole illinois regiment deserted and pledged they would "lie down in the woods till moss grew on their backs" than fight to free slaves.) most people dont realize the war became a war over slaver until lincoln passed the emancipation proclamation, which was a genius move, because making the war into a crusade over slavery kept europe out of the war, and ensured a federal victory.

also, as a card carrying member of the sons of confederate veterans, it makes me upset when people say that my ancestor fought to preserve slavery(he didnt even own a slave, couldnt read and was a poor millworker)

ah...ahh...ahhh...HAKUSHI!!
Washington Caps and Oakland Raiders fan since Day 1!!
"This ain't the summer of Brock...this is all year Angle!"

[Captain Rooster]

El Mudo, don't take offense to the comment. I know most of the soldiers from the Confederate side did not fight for slavery - they thought the North was encroaching on the territory, I would have fought too, I'm sure. There were agricultural workers and all around workers trying to defend what they were told was "right." I consider you ancestor as much a hero as any of the soldiers of the whole conflict. No worries.

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[blakjeezis]

First off, my ancestors, and a lot of other "white" peoples' ancestors weren't even in the country in the 1860's. Why should I be made to feel any responsibility and/or pay for it, because I'm white? If any reparations were to be made, by the government or businesses, it would show in either taxes or increased product costs. So, yes, I would be paying for it.
To put it in perspective, I heard an Indian (dots not feathers) man, his name escapes me at the moment so I'll call him Rajan, giving a speech on Channel 13 I think it was. He likened the American slavery/reparations issue to the British colonization of India. Rajan's grandfather was alive during the period and hated the English, and for good reason I suppose. His rights were trampled, his country subdivided and his people oppressed. When Rajan was asked by his grandfather if he hated the English too, his answer was no. He could see why the older generation would, but he felt the opposite effect. As a result of the British occupation, India had been opened to the rest of the world. All the good things of Western Culture had been brought to the subcontinent, Democracy, Literature, Technology, the list could go on. Where is grandfather had felt the negative effects of oppression, Rajan and subsequent generations felt the benefits.
This is an extremely inflammatory thing to say, but take a look at the state of Africa today. In the end, the descendants of African slaves brought to this country in bondage are a thousand times better off than they would have been had they been left on the continent. They enjoy the oppurtunity for a life infinitely better than any life an African country can provide.


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<marquee>White people are so scared of blakjeezis</marquee>

This message was edited by blakjeezis on 10-4-02 @ 5:40 PM

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

Now El Mundo.. Let me tell you boyww you better take yo black azzzzz and your reble way of thinkin back down to dixie.. now you know this ain't Newark New Jersey, It ain't Patterson New Jersey and It sure ain't Camden... But NO MATTER WHERE IT IS IT SURE IS BETTER THEN A GRASS HUT IN THE SERINDIPITY!

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[blakjeezis]

But NO MATTER WHERE IT IS IT SURE IS BETTER THEN A GRASS HUT IN THE SERINDIPITY
I'm sorry man, but I gotta do it. I think you mean Serengeti. I know. I'm a terrible, awful human being.

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Thanks to LtRooster
"What was the middle one?" - Otto, A Fish Called Wanda
<marquee>White people are so scared of blakjeezis</marquee>

[whale_JUNK]

no reparations should be made to anyone. all people have been screwed over since the beginning of time, it's just they way we are. unfortunately some have been screwed worse than others. like coco said, colonists had a lot of help, i.e., african tribes that sold their captured enemies. i don't think that we will ever see reparations in this country for slavery. for the same reason we will never see a black president. whitey won't let it happen, and he shouldn't. now jews bringing lawsuits against german companies is funny. like someone else said, they have no problem driving these cars. how can you demonize these firms and their practices and then turn around and patronize them? i don't think people should be able to sue tobacco companies either. the info that tobacco products are very bad for you has been around forever. if you find out that the auto manufacturer knew your car would explode from a rear collision and did not fix the problem because it would be cheaper to pay damages to the the injured, then you should be able to sue. <P>

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

I'm sorry man, but I gotta do it. I think you mean Serengeti. I know. I'm a terrible, awful human being.


Serindipity, serengeti, sara lee, what's the F'in differance? BOTTOM LINE your here now enjoy ! would you really rather be in a 3rd world country? I should say NOT!

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[Megadeth]

You fucking moron Brian
I never said I was black

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

You fucking moron Brian
I never said I was black

Oh yea is there something wrong with being black?

LET'S GIT HIM!!! as annie defranco plays on

A Real Friend Wouldn't Bail You Out of Jail... His Ass Would Be in There WITH you!

[El Mudo]

hey sorry for the tone of my post rooster, didnt mean to come off sounding upset...

heres another point..if we pay reparations to descendants of slaves, what about descendants of indentured servants? what about the descendants of indian slaves?

what a bunch of garbage..its like someone is TRYING to start a race war..

ah...ahh...ahhh...HAKUSHI!!
Washington Caps and Oakland Raiders fan since Day 1!!
"This ain't the summer of Brock...this is all year Angle!"

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

SHAKE IT UP!

a/k/a JOEY D' when I call the Show.

[HordeKing1]

There are at least two sides to the story, but personally I feel that reparations are a bad idea that would not accomplish anything.

Many blacks feel that their ancestors were brought to this country against their will, and were treated as chattel, and then systematically deprived of basic rights (even after the Civil War). They claim that their current poverty and crime rates and number of blacks in jail, and lacking higher education and everything else bad in their lives stems from this and their continued systematic and individual discrimination and oppression. They feel that since their slave labors made billions of dollars for the nation (in fact it was the basis for the Southern economy) and since they didn't share the wealth then, they should get some now.

There is a lot of truth to this. There are also many problems with this position as well.

A very little discussed fact is that American slave ships did not kidnap Africans and enslave them. They "bought" them from other blacks. While I strongly feel that no person can be sold, the way that the slaves were acquired shows that it was not a unilateral profit (i.e. kidnapping) but an exchange based on the prevailing morals of the time. This practice was condoned by Spain, Portugal, England and France and most tellingly by Africa. In fact slavery continues in Africa to this date. (Black on black slavery and a "white slave" trade as well). Why do those seeking reparations not discuss this?

Every group that came to this country did so under tremendous hardships. The Jews, Italians, Greeks, Chinese, etc, all underwent tremendous persecution and oppression when they came to this country. In a system where being a member of a minority group meant you could not get a decent job or could not take out a loan, they established their own stores, banking institutions, free loan and burial societies and the like. Most groups within one or two generations, had members in every facet of active "majority" life, be it politics, medicine, arts, physics, academia, etc. The blacks have not achieved this. While no one can deny the horrors of slavery, it is very difficult to relate this deplorable state to any benefits to be gained by reparation. Remember slavery ended over a century ago. (The 13th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on December 6, 1865).

What would reparations accomplish? Obviously not one person who was a slave is alive today. You'd be hard pressed to find a child born to a person who had been a slave alive today. Who would the reparations be making whole? Reparations wouldn't address the sad fact that our society still discriminates against blacks (and other racial and religious minorities, and women, etc).

One final thought. Our entire concept of justice is based on the concept that one is liable for his or her actions not for the actions of others. If a black man were arrested one day, and charged with a crime committed by his ancestors, we would be revolted. He wasn't responsible, why is he being charged? Yet the same concept is being used to justify reparations. Those who favor it, seek to charge the descendants of those whose ancestors MAY HAVE benefited from the use of slaves. The words "MAY HAVE" are important. Not everyone benefited from slavery. In fact many white people lost their lives fighting to end slavery. Those seeking reparations do not address these issues.



<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

[FUNKMAN]

apologize? never

reperations? sure, i got some spare change...
:)

"We can't play this game anymore but can we still be friends"

<img src="http://www.grandfunkrailroad.com/covers/allthe100.gif">


This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 10-20-02 @ 7:17 PM

[cartman29]

we shuld apoligize................NOT

[bboxer]

the companies was just doing wat was normal for that time, they were one in a crowd, it would be like making someone apologize for wearing a really ugly mustache in the 80's (yeah pinellis park pervert) <P>

<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/bboxer652000/boxer.jpg">

[bboxer]

i also think that if the black comunity really wants to stop racism they should stop calling being black a community, its just a physical attribute like being short or having red hair, as long as black skin puts someone in a special category there will always be racism
white people are so scared of black people

<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/bboxer652000/boxer.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

They're a community because odds are if you're black in this country, you're living in a mostly-black neighborhood, thusly a "community". Feel free to say you live in a white community if it makes you feel better.

This whole "racism still exists because THEY make it so" shitck is absurd. People don't like what's different from them. That's the sad fact for all races.

*Edit* Odd coincidence with this thread, but the man who was killed at the gas station by the sniper in Manassas was, I believe, an advocate for slavery reparations. Which lends credence to the orignal "white nut" theory, but not much.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/mojo.jpg>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 10-20-02 @ 11:52 PM

[TheMojoPin]

This practice was condoned by Spain, Portugal, England and France and most tellingly by Africa. In fact slavery continues in Africa to this date. (Black on black slavery and a "white slave" trade as well). Why do those seeking reparations not discuss this?

The "black on black slvaery" is very true, to an extent. Yes, the majority of American slaves for the last 200 years or so of the slave trade were mostly provided by black sellers. BUT, this circumstance only came to exist on such a massive scale because the Europeans and Americans presented the "opportunity". Black slavery existed, but on a relatively tiny scale before the European slave trade, much like the fife and indentured servant system in Europe. This doesn't excuse any one side at all; everyone's shit stinks far too much in this chapter of the world's history. It's just too bad that when people like to point out that blacks mostly supplied the slaves, it's with a tone of "oh, well, it's not really OUR fault then. They'd have done it anyway." Slavery has existed for thousands of years, and this is just still a touchy subject because it existed in the so called "modern Western age" of civilization.

That said, reparations are an insane and ridiculous idea. Apologies? Sure, why not. It'll take a day at most, and it'll quiet things down. It's a formality at best, and it'll make people on both sides of the issue shut the hell up. And THAT'S the best possible solution for the rest of us.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/mojo.jpg>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[WintersEmbers]

i agree that apologies are fine. but reparations are ridiculous. if anyone deserves reparations right now its the sweatshop workers now, not the decendents of slaves who could be doing fairly well for themselves but their great great grandpa was a slave. it just doesnt make sense.


<img src=http://wintersembers.50megs.com/images/we4.gif>
~president and founder of the CAM (Coalition of Angry Micks)~
Yeah Im Irish Word to the Motherland...

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

(1) its been 6 weeks since this post and my opinion hasn't changed

"Getting my 15 minutes of fame a few seconds at a time"

[FMJeff]

hands trembling...must...resist...

<center><img src="http://members.aol.com/sabanj666/ass.gif">
<br>
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. </center>

[TheMojoPin]

<img src=http://sicksteve.clanpages.com/willydontcare.jpg>

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/themojopin2.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

hands trembling...must...resist...

The urge to tell Brian that his resurrection of this thread is 100% unjustified and we should avoid such unecessary dredging up of old threads when you have nothing new to add, since it's essentially against site policy, right? RIGHT?

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/themojopin2.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."