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Good for you, Senator Daschle [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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FMJeff
09-26-2002, 06:45 AM
I'd like to take a moment and show my respect for Majority Leader Senator Tom Daschle for responding to President Bush's idiotic statement that the democratic majority has no interest in the security of the American people. I hope that seals Bush's political fate. He is a puppet of a man as I've ever seen one. I never liked him or Gore. Daschle's response was appropriately angry. If I spent my life trying to make this country better through politics and I heard our President take a verbal shit on his own Congress I would be offended as well.

Daschle for President. Fuck you Bush. Vote Libertarian.

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Wolf
09-26-2002, 06:55 AM
Libertarian is probably a decent way to go. They have some good ideas, but with any political party, I don't agree with all of them.

I say we elect people based on what they stand for vs. what political party they are in.

Who's with me!

Seeyuh!!!

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DarkHippie
09-26-2002, 07:07 AM
I love how Bush accused the democrats of not caring about the security of America, then when Daschele demanded an apology, trent Lott accused him of politicizing the issue, saying "who is our enemy, saddam or the president?"

I hate politics, damn bastards using national crises for their own gain.

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TheMojoPin
09-26-2002, 07:19 AM
Best. Thread. EVER.

Independent is the best way to go...

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Hawiian shirt craig
09-26-2002, 07:44 AM
i'm with you. if he wants to
insinuate that ANY
congressman or senator
doesn't love this country, he
needs to move back to
texASS


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Death Metal Moe
09-26-2002, 07:52 AM
Daschel Sucks.

Next

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Knowledged_one
09-26-2002, 08:01 AM
I think it is more a case of Daschle not wanting this to seem as if it was a total Bush idea and that he did not get consent from congress. And i think the democrats are afraid that if they are not consulted and their opinion is not heard it merely makes the Republicans look like they can handle things without the democrats.
Also what happened to daschles speech after September 11, that this thing was above politics and political parties and was about freedom and the american way of life. What a double talking S.O.B.

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A.J.
09-26-2002, 08:15 AM
I'm sorry Jeff but I have to disagree.

First of all, Bush's comments were in reference to passing homeland security legislation, NOT about debating a war against Iraq.

Second, while it probably was a harsh comment to make, Bush was right to challenge the Congress: particularly the Democratic-controlled Senate. Fiscal Year 2002 ends Monday, 30 September. As of today, not one of the 13 Appropriations bills has been passed into law. That means the government has no money for Fiscal Year 2003 which starts on 1 October. In the interim, one or more Continuing Resolutions will have to be passed to keep the government funded.

True, Continuing Resolutions happen annually. But given that a war against terror is going on right now, it becomes even more critical to expedite the Appropriations process. I believe this was the reason for Bush's comments.

But instead Daschle decided to twist Bush's words and politicize the issue. He made a big deal over nothing because, in this election year, the Democrats can ill afford to look soft on defense and foreign policy.

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 9-26-02 @ 12:15 PM

FMJeff
09-26-2002, 08:29 AM
But instead Daschle decided to twist Bush's words and politicize the issue.


How do you twist "the democrats have no interest in the security of this country"? Don't you consider that to be a really unfair and sweeping generalization to make against a political party? What makes the Republicans more noble and genuine? That, in my opinion is politicizing an issue at its worse.

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JerryTaker
09-26-2002, 08:47 AM
hmm, I wonder if Bush will demand a state of total control over the senate, because of the war, and promise to return to our old ways afterward. They've already sucessfully put forth a vote of "no confidence" on the democrats...

...maybe Lucas isn't as dumb as I thought...

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blakjeezis
09-26-2002, 08:50 AM
"the democrats have no interest in the security of this country"
Is this a direct quote, Jeff? By putting the marks, that would appear to be what you are indicating. I'd be careful with that if I were you. The Democrats are the ones politicizing(sp?) the issue. They are trying to take a cut and dry issue and use it against Bush. Where were all these outcries when Clinton was bombing Milosovic, who was nowhere near the threat to world peace and stability Hussein is?
Dasch-hole was pissed, and lost it, because Bush has outmaneuvred them and is forcing the Democrats to take a stand on the war before the mid-term elections.

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Knowledged_one
09-26-2002, 08:58 AM
Yeah that makes sense im sure bush would be allowed to suspend congress and declare himself ruler of the country till he sees fit. That comment taker is way out of line you are basically saying Bush would spit on the constitution of our government and turn a blind eye to the democratic system and basically abandon everything he believes in about this country. Yeah that makes sense

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FMJeff
09-26-2002, 09:07 AM
Bush is quoted in The Washington Post this morning as saying that the Democratic-controlled Senate is "not interested in the security of the American people."


That's from CNN.Com.

Jeezis, regardless of whether or not Bush was trying to maneuver Congress is irrelevant. I question what he said. To accuse the democrats in the senate of "not being interested in the security of the American people" creates an environment for in-fighting at the worst possible time considering we are trying to start the war machine here. This is a time where our government should be united, but here is Bush making broad accusations and inciting fury amongst the legislative branch. Embarassing the democrats is not going expedite the passing of bills. I'm sure its taking this long for a legitimite reason and Bush wants his fucking war money now so he can take out Hussein and look like a fucking hero in time for re-election.

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TheMojoPin
09-26-2002, 09:10 AM
Where were all these outcries when Clinton was bombing Milosovic

Pretty much unaimously everywhere. Same after Clinton ordered bombings in Afghanistan after the bombing of the two U.S. embassies in Africa. When the wrong targets were getting hit, and/or civilians getting killed, the public and political outcry against the strikes was massive.

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A.J.
09-26-2002, 09:13 AM
Here is the complete speech Bush gave: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020923-3.html

Here is the section that so offended Daschle:

But to make sure that we even do a better job, I asked the Congress to join me in setting up a Department of Homeland Security. Listen, I didn't run for -- my slogan wasn't, "vote for George, he wants government to be bigger." But I do want it to work. (Applause.) I do want to be able to say to the American people we've left behind -- I do want it to be said we worked together, Republicans and Democrats worked together to leave behind a strategy and the ability for future Presidents to more adequately secure the homeland.

And we're having a little problem in the Senate, see. The House passed a good bill, it allows me to move people any time, any place, anywhere in order to best deal with an enemy which isn't going to be bound by bureaucratic rules or handbooks or volumes of micromanagement -- that's not what they have to deal with. And I refuse to have future Presidents, or this President, deal with a Senate trying to tell me through micromanaging the process how best to secure the homeland.

I'll give you one example. On our borders we need to know who's coming into America. We need to know what they're bringing. (Applause.) We need to know if they're bringing something in the country, and we need to know if they're going to leave when they say they're going to leave. That's logical and that makes common sense. And, yet, on our borders, we've got three different departments dealing with our border security. We've got the INS and the Border Patrol and the Customs, all full of fine people, staffed by really great Americans, all working hard to make sure that border security is a part of the homeland security.

Except in cases now, they've got different uniforms, different cultures, different styles, perhaps different strategies. and for the sake of the country, I need to have the flexibility to meld those organizations together. I need to be able to say to the American people that we're working together. (Applause.) The Senate doesn't hear it, yet, but the Senate is going to hear from me if they don't pass a good bill as this. (Applause.)


And my message to the Senate is: you need to worry less about special interest in Washington and more about the security of the American people. (Applause.) But the best homeland security strategy is to hunt the killers down, one person at a time, and bring them to justice, which is what we're going to do. (Applause.)

Bush was talking about the Senate passing the Homeland Security bill in a timely fashion. And who sets the Senate schedule? Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.



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This message was edited by AJinDC on 9-26-02 @ 1:22 PM

Knowledged_one
09-26-2002, 09:36 AM
Not to mention that Daschle tried the same stunt about a month and a half ago when he said bush needs to get approval from congress. So that his democrats could get some of the credit for this when their election time comes.
I would say Daschle is more interested in political gain then the safety of our people, otherwise he would stick to his post 9/11 comments of unity and not try to start infighting among the elected officals. Because lets not forget we are the people who elected these guys, they were not appointed we elected them.
How about everyone take the effort they put into getting O&A back on the air, and take the time to voice your opinion to your congressman/woman the same way you did the Christian alliance. Whether you are for war or not, make your opinion known to the people you elected

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DarkHippie
09-26-2002, 10:56 AM
its funny how the bush supporters on this board will defend Bush to the death even when he makes a horrific blunder like this, even to the point of insulting other board members, while the rest of us calmly post about what really happened, and how Bush's puppet masters are trying to use the terrorism crisis to gain control of the senate and keep control of the executive branch, which they have been pissing away with flimsy leadership.

they are trying to create a scenario of fear, and then put the democrats to blame, instead of working together. but who does it help? certainly not a country "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Just remember, while parties argue, we get screwed.

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Knowledged_one
09-26-2002, 11:11 AM
Bush supporters are no less ardent in their support then any democrat on the board.
And im pretty sure that we post as calmly as anyone else so why make the generalization that we are rash how do you know how we feel when posting anything on this subject.
And yes we are bush supporters but then you make statements like Bush's puppet masters pull the strings...who are these puppet masters, give us some names and reasons why you say this rather then stating it and not backing it up.
And by flimsy leadership, do you mean that bush is looked at in the international community as a true leader of men. While Bush may have been laughed at prior to 9/11, most leaders have been clamoring for bush's time to discuss international issues, and to see hear his thoughts on various other worldly items. And its very easy to point out his mistakes when speaking because he often is on television speaking his views, its funny that you all make fun of his mispeaks like you have never done it yourself. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
And bush may be trying to win control of the senate because of the democrats failure to act on anything before them. When the republicans controlled the house they succesfully passed through most of the items on their contract with america.
And yeah bush is so bad at leadership he is having to clean up all the messes Clinton left behind, like the faulty accounting of major firms, dealing with terrorists that could have been removed during Clintons presidency. And oh yeah did Clinton accomplish his goals of reform of Medicare and Social Security, no, he was to busy embroiled in scandals from real estate to bj's. But he was effective right.

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And we got it on tonight

Thanks Aggie for the Pic and SilentSpic for the sig host

TheMojoPin
09-26-2002, 11:12 AM
Bush is talking about bringing terrorists to justice. Bush is talking about homeland security. Bush is talking about the war on terror. What does this have to with Iraq? Very, very little. And it's not just the Democrats, there's a growing number of Republicans in the Senate speaking against the planned invasion. Just because he's the president, it doesn't mean he's always right.

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DC Reed
09-26-2002, 11:18 AM
FMJ gets political, tommorow on Ron and Fez!

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FMJeff
09-26-2002, 11:23 AM
Bush isn't talking about anything. He's reading a speech someone else wrote.

otherwise he would stick to his post 9/11 comments of unity and not try to start infighting among the elected officals.


He didn't start, that's the thing. He RESPONDED. Bush didn't have to bring up the Senatorial dirty laundry in front of the entire nation. He should've addressed this in front of the Senate in a formal address, not at a rally during a feel-good-about-America speech.

Indirect accusations are not the way to run a government. You want to get people moving, confront them directly.

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DarkHippie
09-26-2002, 11:32 AM
Knowledged one:
Bush would never go against the republican Party. He does exactly what they tell him to do, little more than a face to put on a shapeless entity. Therefore you have your puppet masters. In addition, i'm sure you are aware of some of his policies in the Interior to help out some of his contributors in the Energy industry (and i'm not even talking about Enron).

i'm sorry, did you call W. a leader of men? he is callow and indecisive, and poor excuse for a president, but i fine, fine figurehead. a true leader would not be sending us to war. a true leader would understand the longterm ramifications of going to battle now in the Middle East, creating more anger among a people who have already shown that they can hurt us. bush may win a short term victory, but we will be paying for this for decades to come if we go to war. but no, he is too short sighted to see that, he only is thinking that he has to show some progress in his "war on terrorism."

as for blaming Clinton, you forget, under him we had one of the strongest economies we ever had, he cleared out the debt caused by 12 years of republican leadership, and our quality of life was far superior to how it was once "the Tex-icutioner" took office (even before 9-11). And he did have a detailed plan for fighting al-qaeda. He gave it to W. when he took office, and there it sat, ignored, until it was too late.

Some leader of men.

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A.J.
09-26-2002, 11:49 AM
Indirect accusations are not the way to run a government.


No, but they're a political reality and both sides (President/Congress, Republican/Democrat) use such methods to sway opinion and gain support.

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blakjeezis
09-26-2002, 11:53 AM
That's from CNN.Com
Ah yes, once again proving that they are a bastion of unbiased journalistic integrity. President Bush said no such thing, but Tom Dasc-hole said he did, so I guess that's close enough for CNN. Thank you, AJ, for posting The President's words for all to read. You will all note that nowhere do the words 'Democrat' or 'Republican' appear, and nowhere does he accuse anyone of not caring about the security of of our nation. As per the Democratic Party Creedo, Dasc-hole tried to spin his way out of it, but failed with hilarious results. He practically had a nervous breakdown on the floor of the Senate. Neither he nor his colleagues share the silver tongue of their Patron Saint, Clinton, and the Democratic party is in serious trouble without him as their mouthpiece. Dasc-hole is falling to pieces in the Senate, I've heard nothing from Gephart so I guess he's hiding, and Al Gore is flip flopping more than a grounded fish.
Over the next few days and weeks, the attacks on Bush will continue, and grow. The Neo-Liberal spin machine will kick into overdrive. Soon CNN.com will print a direct quote of Bush saying, "Why with my weather altering device, I'll take over the world!", The New York Times will print a story that Jeb Bush's daughter is actually the offspring of a Colombian drag queen and Batboy, and Dasc-hole will claim thjat Bush sent a midget Ninja into Senate offices to assassinate him.
The war with Iraq is imminent, neccessary, and right. This will increase Bush's popularity, there's no doubt about it, but that doesn't make it wrong. It will also have an evffect on the upcoming elections. The Democrats see their grip on power slipping, and are so afraid thay are willing to go to any length to hold on.



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FMJeff
09-26-2002, 11:54 AM
a true leader would understand the longterm ramifications of going to battle now in the Middle East,


Fucking Cubans/Russians had tactical missles pointed at Florida and JFK still didn't attack.


creating more anger among a people who have already shown that they can hurt us.


Bingo. Now's not the time to attack a race torn apart by decades of war...especially not us.

Iraq hasn't DONE anything...physically DONE anything...to warrant an invasion. There's only speculation...rumor..circumstancial evidence...

at least in the Gulf War we could justify it by saying we were saving Kuwait...regardless of what our real motivation was.

Where was Bush's campaign against Saddam when he took office? Why now? Why does he want Iraq so bad NOW? They've always had weapons. So do we. He could've used them a hundred times over. So could we.

The man is not insane. If he was insane, he'd be bombing everything. You have to think of behavior as a means to an end. Let's say he bombs the US off the planet. What then? Where do you go from there? Get high fives from the rest of the world? You don't think he'd reap the whirlwind with a stunt like that? The man is desperately trying to control his sinking country and compensating for his ego with pomposity and posturing...I'd be really surprised if he did anything.

If this man is such a horror, why hasn't he been taken out already, especially when we had the chance? Why is he more evil now than he was in the 90's?


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JerryTaker
09-26-2002, 12:37 PM
That comment taker is way out of line you are basically saying Bush would spit on the constitution of our government and turn a blind eye to the democratic system and basically abandon everything he believes in about this country.


Really? And I guess it's safe to assume you know exactly what all of dubbya's beliefs and thoughts are, you know exactly what motivates him? I personally don't beleive any politician is interested in thier country, or security, or people, until it's time for them to vote, be it Bush, Cheney, Gephardt, Daschle, Blair, Nixon, Kennedy, Washington, Linclon, Stalin, Hitler, etc...

They're all rotten, cold, back-stabbing and power hungry, or else they wouldn't be politicians, that's just how the world works.

Personally, I've stopped caring, these people want to play "real-life Risk," there's nothing we can do about it, but watch the pretty show right before our skin disintegrates...

And we can argue until we're blue in the face, but all we're really arguing is "Who will lead us to slaughter a little slower?"

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This message was edited by JerryTaker on 9-26-02 @ 4:51 PM

Gvac
09-26-2002, 12:53 PM
Daschle may just be the sneakiest, most conniving politician I've ever encountered, but to each his own.

I just thought it was hilarious how he threw a fit on the Senate floor yesterday for 15 minutes, and then later realized he had completely misinterpreted Bush's statements and got back up to explain himself.

But he's not a Republican, so I guess that means he's a genius.

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Yerdaddy
09-26-2002, 12:53 PM
"the democrats have no interest in the security of this country"
This IS a direct quote from Bush, who made this statement REPEATEDLY on a speech-making tour of the midwest whith this statement getting increasingly more specific. So while he did start off with only the veiled reference to the question of the Democrat's concearn for the security of America, by the end of the tour he was directly questioning it. This is because he got away with it for so long and FINALLY Daschle spoke up.

And while it's nice to see that Daschle finally grew a set, it would be nice if his set was big enough to call the administration on it's series of lies that have been used to fear-monger the American public about the threat that Iraq poses. None of the al-Qaeda - Saddam links have proved true and the administration should be held accountable for lying to the American public. But the Democrats don't have the balls, and the public is too entrenched in ideological politics to see for themselves.

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A.J.
09-26-2002, 12:57 PM
He's reading a speech someone else wrote.


So was Daschle.

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