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At What Point is a Person Considered an Alcoholic? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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Captain Rooster
07-22-2002, 04:50 PM
This was the topic of discussion in a class that I am taking for grad. school.

The topic came up during a debate over the characteristics of adult children of alcoholics.

Is one drink a night make a person a drunk?
Is it when it interferes with a person life?
Does it have to be connected to abuse?

Those are just thought questions.

What do you think about the topic?


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<CENTER>Ron's Quote of the Day:
Paul-O: "Hey, my wife has lost like 50 pounds in the last few weeks."
Ronnie: "What'd she do? Take a dump?"</CENTER>

ShelleBink
07-22-2002, 05:15 PM
I duno...

if you're Irish, you're automatically an alcoholic.

Actually, I went out w/ an alcoholic, I think how I knew to classify him as an alcoholic is when it started to interfere with his life.

Thank God he's gotten help :)

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Jennitalia
07-22-2002, 05:18 PM
when it interferes with your work and personal life
when you have to get drunk for any time of occasion or non occasion
when you constantly drink as a way to deal with your problems and usually create new ones
when you dont take responsibiliy for your actions as a result from your drinking

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Tazz
07-22-2002, 05:20 PM
Is it when it interferes with a person life?

I pick this one. As the child of an alcoholic, I saw it first hand. My father stopped working and then just drank all day. He spent all of our money on booze. The true mark of an alcoholic is when they start living to drink.

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Captain Rooster
07-22-2002, 05:21 PM
Great points.

What about if you drink on the weekends while watching tv and get whacked? But just when you are watching the game or whatever.

If the guy/gal gets whacked every weekend while doing a certain thing - are they an alcoholic?



<CENTER><img SRC=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/roosternladin.jpg></CENTER>
<CENTER>Ron's Quote of the Day:
Paul-O: "Hey, my wife has lost like 50 pounds in the last few weeks."
Ronnie: "What'd she do? Take a dump?"</CENTER>

ShelleBink
07-22-2002, 05:25 PM
i think you'd have to be more specific.

i for one, for two weekends in a row, got very very drunk, and had an awesome time w/ friends... but I dont consider that alcoholism. I think it depends on the situation and person.

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Jennitalia
07-22-2002, 05:28 PM
What about if you drink on the weekends while watching tv and get whacked? But just when you are watching the game or whatever.

If the guy/gal gets whacked every weekend while doing a certain thing - are they an alcoholic?



i think it depends on the situation and person. it's very common lifestyle for a person in college or in their 20's. almost everybody goes through the party stage. the difference is, some people are able to party and have fun, and not let it completely take priority in their lives or fall out of control as a result from it

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nortonfan
07-22-2002, 05:30 PM
when you get taking home in a wheelbarrow.

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Captain Rooster
07-22-2002, 05:31 PM
Well, to be specific, the topic is hard to narrow down into one specific category or situation.

The prof. kept posing different possibilities and asking thought provoking questions that were related to the topic.

For example, if a guy drinks with his buddies at the bar every weekend and gets drunk each time. Is he an alcoholic? He does not drink during the week but slams beers on Fri and Sat night.

Can that guy be considered an alcoholic?

I just have a hard time putting my thumb on one specific point where a person can consider themselves an alcoholic.





<CENTER><img SRC=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/roosternladin.jpg></CENTER>
<CENTER>Ron's Quote of the Day:
Paul-O: "Hey, my wife has lost like 50 pounds in the last few weeks."
Ronnie: "What'd she do? Take a dump?"</CENTER>

jamesdiggy
07-22-2002, 05:58 PM
I break it down to simplicity between need and want. Wanting to stay home and drink is one thing. Needing to stay home and drink, that, to me, is a problem. Of course I'm just speaking hypothetically, although I am Irish/German, double whammy!

I like my women the way I like my coffee, in a plastic cup.

erole
07-22-2002, 06:33 PM
This is a cool topic, becuase the definition of an alcoholic has a lot of gray area in it.
For me, the person who drinks and it effects their life is a major alcoholic...when dependency on something effects the well being of one's self and/or the others around him you can call them an alcoholic.
If you are talking dependency on having a good time on the weekends, and you can't relax, or have fun without a drink - that's alcoholism...when you can't say no to the alcohol becuase you need it to the point of craving, and you can't be "normal" without it.
I am also think that alcoholism has a precursor, an igniter. I guess I'll let that twist into my definition somehow.

But, if you wake up one morning butt naked laying next to a goat you aren't necassarily an alcoholic, just a lonley person.

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ag
07-22-2002, 06:46 PM
I think when it interfears with the everyday daily activities you have a problem.

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Gmann
07-22-2002, 06:50 PM
Hmmmm......good question. I wouldnt consider myself to be an alcoholic....though I do enjoy a drink. There are times I get bored at home and I go out to the Red Rock. I do it to just get out of the house and be around people. Im real good friends with the bartenders there...and sometimes I just go there to bullshit with them. There have been weekend nights were I have gone out and had only one beer and thats it.....then again there have been nights where all of a sudden the beers just went down WAY too easy. Poison Ivy calls me a "lush" constantly!!

FEAR....FEAR attracts the fearful....the strong, the weak, the innocent, the corrupt.....FEAR....FEAR is my ally!!!

Se7en
07-22-2002, 07:01 PM
When they get employed by WNEW.

My God, I have never seen such a collection of alcoholics.

I would argue that if you need to drink EVERYDAY....you've got a problem. Even if it's just a few beers with dinner (to use an example). If you can't go a day or a few days without drinking, you've got a problem. If you need alcohol to have a good time, you've definitely got a problem.



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Cybersoldier
07-22-2002, 07:22 PM
if they need to drink in the morning that person may have a problem or wants a drink all the time

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thanks cheezeemee for the sig

wilee
07-23-2002, 07:09 AM
So, you people are saying I shouldn't pour beer on my Cheerios? Isn't it all grain anyways?

Seriously, I agree with the majority here. If you go out and get drunk every weekend, that's more ritual than dependence. If you can't "take a weekend off" of that ritual, then you have a problem.

I'm Irish and German too, but I'm often the DD.

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TomPoo
07-23-2002, 07:17 AM
So, you people are saying I shouldn't pour beer on my Cheerios? Isn't it all grain anyways?


seriously, I always thought BEER-ial is the true breakfast of champions.

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fatty
07-23-2002, 07:29 AM
If the guy/gal gets whacked every weekend while doing a certain thing - are they an alcoholic?


i don't think that makes you an alcoholic. say you went and played golf with your buddies every weekend, i wouldn't call them a golfoholic.

i understand your debate rooster, i get drunk pretty much every weekend, sometimes during the week, and when i go out i believe i will have a better time with alcohol... but i'm not an alcoholic.

i think a person is an alcoholic by need. i like to get drunk a lot, i like to get wasted, i like to drink everytime i go out, but i dont' need to.
an alcoholic can go days without drinking, but the fact that he still needs it makes him an alcoholic.

to sum it up it's all about need, not like or want.

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Shorty let me tell you about my only vice,
It has to do with lots of lovin' and it ain't nuthin nice.

Michael Fury
07-23-2002, 08:01 AM
When it's Seagrams 7, Mets 0 - time to ease up.





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Yerdaddy
07-23-2002, 01:22 PM
I just have a hard time putting my thumb on one specific point where a person can consider themselves an alcoholic.
I've been a recovering alcoholic for going-on six years now and I can't tell you who is and who isn't an alcoholic either. There are definite warning signs because of the biological factors involved in alcoholism, but ultimately it's a decision that has to be made by the individual, or by people effected by the person's behavior.

So while there is no simple answer, these are the things that I would ask someone who asks me about it:
blackouts - a blackout is caused by the brain being overwhelmed by the processing of alcohol after it has been processed by the liver. In alcoholics, the liver converts alcohol into a more complex molecule than that of non-alcoholics, thus the brain has to exert more resources to dealing with it and starts to shut down other processes - one of which is the conversion of short-term memory to long-term. You don't have to be an alcoholic to reach this point, but if it doesn't take a lot of alcohol to reach it then is should be taken as a warning sign.

tolerance - the brain and body of an alcoholic will react in different ways to alcohol - either by increased or reduced tolerance to alcohol. So having a high or low tolerance to alcohol could be a warning sign. For me, my tolerance would fluctuate by weeks or months, meaning I would have high tolerance for a while then low tolerance, (not withstanding factors like food or body-weight). That told me that my body was reacting abnormally to alcohol, which was a sign that I was an alcoholic.

family history - every doctor will ask this question first. The scientific and medical communies have not questioned the genetic factors of alcoholism and addiction for decades. Specific genes have been identified, and every study in 50 years has shown the correlation between family history and alcoholism/addiction. Thus the practical application of this information is: "do you have a family history?"

cravings - alcoholics crave alcohol. You think about it when you shouldn't. You want to drink even when you've decided not to. The idea of quitting scares you. You can't stop drinking after two beers. All of these are manifestations of cravings that the brain creates. It's the same mechanism that causes us to crave salt, sugar, fat, sex, fight-or-flight reactions, etc. It's the reason why people continue to drink after it's become a destructive element in their lives.

These are the most obvious clues to determining alcoholism, and because only the alchoholic knows if he's blacked out, had cravings, or has high or low tolerance, only the individual can determine whether he/she is an alcoholic.

People will argue that it's all a matter of willpower and "weakness", but nobody who I've ever heard make that case has ever known the first thing about biology. Willpower and strength are what brings an alcoholic to actually acknowledge that they have a problem and quit, and if they can't quit on thier own, to get help.

I hope this helps.

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blakjeezis
07-23-2002, 03:11 PM
One of the hallmarks of alchoholism, or any addiction for that matter, is when the behavior starts to have adverse consequences on the addict's life and he/she still doesn't stop. If a person is unable cease the behavior when faced with the detrimental effects of their actions then they are an addict.

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Captain Rooster
07-23-2002, 03:58 PM
Yerdaddy, thanks man, that awesome reflection and summary was truly enlightening for me.

I have a question (shocker!).

You typed this...

thus the brain has to exert more resources to dealing with it and starts to shut down other processes - one of which is the conversion of short-term memory to long-term.


Is that true or do people lose their long-term memory?

This subject intrigues me deeply. I have known alcoholics and I constantly evaluate my own behavior.

I appreciate everybody's comments.


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Yerdaddy
07-24-2002, 02:00 AM
Is that true or do people lose their long-term memory?
If you mean do people lose the long-term memory of time spent in a blackout? I'd describe it as poorly transcribed into long-term memory, and thus I can remember brief flashes of times I spent in blackouts, but because the process of communication between the systems of long-term and short-term memory is greatly disabled, yes that long-term memory is lost.

But if you mean does drinking, or heavy drinking, diminish a person's long-term memory, I think it does. Not to the same degree as a blackout of course, but more than most other drugs, I'd guess. I've heard from doctors and other sources that alcohol is the one drug that's known to be poison to every cell in the body, not just brain and liver, but all organs, hair, skin, etc. And it does particular damage to the brain because the brain has some primary functions in processing alcohol. So the more a person drinks, the more damage he does to all the functions of the brain. But due to a process called "neuro-elasticity", where brain cells can learn to take up functions that are needed to make up for lost or damaged cells, a person who quits drinking can regain some of the memory function that was lost to drinking. (But that's only if he actually does things like reading that "excercizes" the memory functions of the brain. Neuro-elasticity also diminishes with age - which is also why kids can learn languages and musical instruments so much easier than adults.) And if he doesn't regain his full memory, fuck it, he won't remember anyway. It's similar to "muscle memory" where if you lose muscle mass or strength, you can regain it easier than if you had never had it at all.

If you're asking about non-alcohol related memory, I'd be making it up even more than I am now. Sorry buddy.

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 7-24-02 @ 6:27 AM

Ants In My Pants
07-24-2002, 06:12 AM
At What Point is a Person Considered an Alcoholic?When they choose IrishAlkey as their screen name. <P>
As far as I'm concerned, Jennitalia pretty much nailed it when she said...when it interferes with your work and personal life
when you have to get drunk for any time of occasion or non occasion
when you constantly drink as a way to deal with your problems and usually create new ones
when you dont take responsibiliy for your actions as a result from your drinking <P>
<font color=white size=1>

This message was edited by Black Irish on 7-24-02 @ 3:06 PM

Captain Rooster
07-27-2002, 08:52 PM
If I go

Before I'm old
Oh, brothers of mine
Please don't forget me if I go

Bartender, please
Fill my glass for me
With the wine you gave Jesus that set him free
After three days in the ground

Oh, and if I die
Before my time
Oh, sweet sister of mine
Please don't regret me if I die


I'm on bended knees, I pray
Bartender, please

When I was young, I didn't think about it
Now I just can't get it off my mind

I'm on bended knees
FATHER PLEASE!

If all this gold
Should steal my soul away
Oh, dear mother of mine
Please redirect me if this gold...

Bartender, you see
The wine that's drinking me
Came from the vine that strung Judas from the Devil's tree
It's roots deep, deep in the ground

I'm on bended knees
Oh, Bartender, please

When I was young, I didn't dream about it
Now I just want to run and die

I'm on bended knees
Oh, Bartender, please
Bartender, please


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<CENTER></CENTER>

This message was edited by LTRooster on 7-28-02 @ 12:56 AM