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The Blowhard
05-14-2002, 09:28 PM
Carter backs Castro on 'lie'

From combined dispatches
HAVANA - Former President Jimmy Carter, after touring a Cuban biotechnology plant yesterday, said the Bush administration had tried to undermine his trip by accusing Havana of developing weapons of mass destruction.
"These allegations were made not coincidentally just before our visit to Cuba," Mr. Carter said with Cuban President Fidel Castro at his side after visiting Havana's Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology.
Mr. Carter also said U.S. officials had told him before his visit that there was no evidence linking Cuba to the export of biological weaponry.
"I asked them specifically about any evidence that Cuba has been involved in sharing any information with any other nations on Earth that could be used for terrorist purposes and the answer was no," he told reporters in a reference to pre-trip briefings by U.S. intelligence.
The former president, on a visit to try to mend relations with Cuba, also met two leading dissidents and encouraged their efforts to seek internal reform to the one-party communist state led by Mr. Castro.
John Bolton, U.S. undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, charged a week ago that Cuba was working to develop biological weapons and had shared such technology with other rogue states.
But Mr. Carter said the Bush administration's charges were timed to coincide with his visit.
Mr. Carter, who arrived Sunday, was the first U.S. president to visit Cuba since Mr. Castro took power in a 1959 revolution.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell yesterday appeared to back off the charge, while saying Mr. Bolton's speech "was not breaking new ground."
Speaking to reporters on his way to a NATO foreign ministers' meeting in Iceland, Mr. Powell said: "As Undersecretary Bolton said recently, we do believe Cuba has a biological offensive research capability. We didn't say it actually had some weapons but it has the capacity and capability to conduct such research."
National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice told public television's "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" last night that "there is plenty of reason to be very concerned about what the Cubans are doing in this area."
"Now how it is dealt with will depend in part on what Fidel Castro is willing to do," she said, alluding to likely inspections.
On Friday, Mr. Castro rejected the U.S. charge as a "lie" intended to counter growing support in the United States for establishing normal relations with Cuba.
Cuba says its biotechnology and genetic-engineering program, one of the most advanced in Latin America, is dedicated only to peaceful purposes and to making medicines and vaccines, including generic versions of four AIDS drugs.
Cuba has joint ventures with numerous countries, including Iran, Egypt and India, to produce pharmaceuticals. Since 1996, Cuba and Iran have been building a pharmaceutical research and production facility in Karaj, outside the Iranian capital of Tehran.
Dismissing the idea that Cuba was providing sensitive know-how to rogue nations, Mr. Carter said he believed Havana would abide by international agreements restraining the improper use of technology shared with other countries.
He said Cuban scientists deny that they have any technology transfer program with Libya and that a new program with Iran is not functioning yet. Dr. Luis Herrera, director of the center, said Cuba has no program with Iraq, either.
Antonio D. Esquivel and Rafel T. Cervantes, both members of the Revolutionary Recovery Movement, a Cuban-American group that campaigns against Mr. Castro, are skeptical about the assertions.
"What does Carter know about labs?" Mr. Cervantes said at a meeting with the editors of The Washington Times.
Traveling with his wife, Rosalynn, and a small group of executives and staff from his Carter Center, the former president had no biotechnology specialists in his delegation for the visit to the center. Mr. Carter has a backgro

CaptClown
05-14-2002, 09:55 PM
When did Jimmy Carter get a doctorate in molecular biology?


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This message was edited by CaptClown on 5-15-02 @ 2:06 AM

Yerdaddy
05-14-2002, 10:06 PM
I don't know, Heck. I don't see where the traitor part fits in. I haven't seen that the administration or the State Department has produced any evidence that Cuba is actually producing chem/bio weaons. As far as the capablility to produce weapons, any ass-backwards country could be said to have the capability by current international standards. So I don't see any point in bringing it up unless you're looking to score some polital points for a president who's still seen as being half a retart on foreign affairs.

Castro's a scumbag, but he's less of a bastard than most of the Latin American dictatorships we sponsored during the Cold War. Give me something substantial on him and I'll start caring about Castro. I'm a little more interested in $1.4 billion being given to the Colombian military knowing they routinely massacre civilians.

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DarkHippie
05-15-2002, 03:52 AM
so what makes him a traitor again? Is it criticizing the pres, visiting another country, or saying that that country does not want to kill us.

I am a strong proponent of either lifting or reducing the trade embargo against cuba. its only there out of spite, because they are communist and we want othing to do with communist nations. this is just a silly attitude. as always, Jimmy carter has the wisdom to see past such frivocities

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Pootertoot
05-15-2002, 07:27 AM
If we lift the embargo, maybe Florida'll be safe to visit outside of Disney again ;P

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brijjack
05-15-2002, 12:59 PM
DarkHippie is right, what do we care if they're communist, the cold wars over. I would like to think that Jimmy Carter's trip is the first step in lifting the embargo or starting talks between the countries, but I don't see that happening. Cuba also gave their full cooperation in housing Al Quida captives on our air base. I don't see why Cuba would even consider creating bio wepons, like someone said, he's a scumbag, but I don't see him doing something like using them against us or his own people.

Of course I just want some Cuban Cigars

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DarkHippie
05-15-2002, 03:18 PM
in addition to what i said before, did you know that cuba has developed a vaccine for spinal mennengitis that we won't get from them because of the trade embargo? this is just one example of how the embargo deprives us as well

stubborness and rigidity ends up hurting us in the end.

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living on the road, my friend, was supposed to keep us free and clean.
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BoxerAF
05-15-2002, 07:18 PM
The embargo is ridculous, and has to go, i'll take thistime to defend Carter, although I don't agree with him many times, I think he is a man of integrity and priciple and would never betray his country. He took an oppotrtunity to adress a foerign nation. Any president would of taken the oppportunity . And being that he is a man who doesent flaunt his expresidency he took the time to be honest about his opinions.


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Trainspotting
05-15-2002, 07:50 PM
Jimmy Carter is not a traitor, but (in his sleazy shirt) is sucking up to Castro because they both believe the state should be responsible for social services because people are either incompetent or not able to use freedom constructively to care for themselves(in their opinion) Of course Castro does well for himself and is worth about $100 million. - Socialists tend lto ive like rich republicans but ask everyone else to be poor and humble. However it remains to be seen if Cuba is really a terrorist nation. Castro uses the Potemkin village doctrine for public relations. He did not show Carter the political prisons, the AIDS quarantine wards,
the fact that Cubans who have power are all european spainish and are not african. However despite the fact that Castro is dictator does not make the US blameless. In the early sixties our government came up with Operation Northwood which was a proposal to stage terrorist attacks on US soil and blame them on Cuba so that we would have an excuse to invade Cuba. So maybe the charge that bio-weapons are used by Castro is an revitalization of that plan. Who knows? They should end the embargo. As Howard Bloom author of the Lucifer Principle stated, Castro benefits from the embargo because he can blame his country's problems on the US and deflect attention away from his failed policies, despite having received billions in aid from the Soviet Union and despite the fact that Cuba trades with most of the world except the US. The embargo in a strange sense keeps Fidel's regime in power. Good topic, Heckler.

See ya!
Trainspotting

The Blowhard
05-15-2002, 08:13 PM
I think the Peanut Farmer from Plains should stick to building houses.

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This message was edited by Heckler on 5-16-02 @ 12:15 AM

Orallo
05-15-2002, 08:16 PM
so where is the traitor part come in???

I think the embargo should go, the only people suffering from the embargo is the citizens of cuba, Castro has amassed millions of US dolars during his dictatorship...

If we traded with cuba and "allowed" the general public to have access to computers and the internet (which VERY few do now) they would be able to organize against the dictatorship and get out of under Castro's foot.

Even fucking Russia is our friend now... and cuba and the US are still pissed at each other, this is just a politicians pissing contest to see who gives up first.

anyway,

Peace & Hugs,






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Gvac
05-16-2002, 02:34 AM
While I agree that the embargo with Cuba should be lifted, it's for slightly different reasons than those stated here. I firmly believe that if the people of Cuba had a taste of what freedom and democracy are all about, the Communist regime would begin to crumble.

As far as Carter goes, I think it's terribly disrespectful for him to publicly aver that there is nothing suspicious going on down there. How the hell does he know? Because Castro showed him what he wanted him to see?

I think ol' Jimbo is desperately trying to do something big before he cashes in his chips so he won't be remembered as what he was - one of the worst Presidents in recent history.



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This message was edited by gvac on 5-16-02 @ 6:38 AM

Halfpops
05-16-2002, 05:30 AM
You nailed it gvac-Sadly a 3rd generation is growing up under Castro and they certainly don't know any other way of life. I agree, lift the embargo and Castro will fall. As far as Jimbo-stick with Habitat For Humanity. His foreign policies sucked and most countries had little respect for him. Remember the Iranian hostages-released the day Reagan took office. He should stick to helping US citizen's. <P>

Just Get It Done!

A.J.
05-16-2002, 05:55 AM
I think ol' Jimbo is desperately trying to do something big before he cashes in his chips so he won't be remembered as what he was - one of the worst Presidents in recent history


Yep. Save for the Camp David Accords and possibly SALT II, Carter's foreign policy was hapless at best. Like Clinton, Carter is trying to revise history and reinvent himself to shape his legacy in a more positive light. The difference is that at least Carter was an honorable man.

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Yerdaddy
05-16-2002, 07:29 PM
How Does he know?...
...Because Castro showed him what he wanted him to see?
Prior to his trip, Carter met with State Department officials and administration officials, including Condoleezza Rice, and asked specifically if there was evidence that Cuba was producing chem/bio weapons, or transfering them or technology to any other countries. He was told "no". Note the lack of evidence presented by the State Dept. or administration - only "concearns" about the "ablility" to produce/transfer this stuff. Behind the US and Canada, Cuba has the most advanced medical system in the Western hemisphere. As it is anywhere, many aspects of Cuba's medical system would be technically classified as "dual use", but it's totally unrealistic to think that they could be converted to weapons use without our knowledge.

One of two things happened: either Carter was lied to by the State Dept. and Bush advisors, which is highly unlikley to be done to an ex-president, or Carter was told the truth and the announcement of the administrations's "concearns" is a stretch of the truth meant to embarrass Carter on his trip. I believe it was the latter because Bush is fervently pro-embargo and Carter's trip undermines that position by showing that Castro's Cuba doesn't fit in with Bush's "axis of evil" type of regime, and also demonstrates that there are other ways of dealing with an uncooperative regime than to isolate and punish the country as a whole.

Carter and Bush are on opposite sides of the Cuba embargo issue, which is an extention of the ongoing isolation vs. engagement debate that has been going on in Washington since the US became a world power. But while Bush's reason for hating Carter's trip is probably exlusively because of the embargo issue, Carter's trip served a broader purpose. His trip forced Castro to do a number of things that he has never done before, and only Carter could have made him do. He told Castro on live Cuban TV that he had a bad record of human rights and that he should stop oppressing those who oppose him politically, the Cuban democracy activists. He actually met with the dissenters, and forced Castro to accept an 11,000 signature petition from Cubans as mandated by the Cuban constitution. In Cuba, where the biggest problem is that the media and information systems are so closely controlled by the government, these are the first step that needed to take place for Democracy to have a chance. In short, because nobody in Cuba is allowed to criticize Castro, Carter went there and did it to his face.

Whatever people think his motives are, Carter is one of the most respected former presidents in US history. If he was only seeking personal glory, he could find a thousand better ways to do it than confronting Castro, building houses with Habitat for Humanity, and going to Africa to help reduce river blindness and guinea worm diseases. This is a hell of alot better than George Bush Sr. who's done nothing since leaving office except travel the world to schill for US corporations, selling weapons to third world regimes. Personally, I see Carter's presidency as a failure, and the opposite of what he claimed he wanted to do. While claiming to be the "human rights president" he continued to sell more weapons to the world, dictatorships and all, than anyone before him, (a trend that continues today). But I think that what he's done since is more dignified that what any other president has done after office.

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